Is the problem Jonathan?

"

Reaked#1384 wrote:

Agree with every single point you made and want to add that sekhemas and chaos trials need to be redone.
Especially Sekhemas is too long - replaying the first wings is just tedious af

What I really like about PoE2 is the skill tree and possibilities (which I know is an illusion).
I don't really care about endgame bosses but I really enjoy the experimentation aspect of everything. Since .1, there has been a clear choice to make archetypes and you WILL play one of them. Going off the beaten path will result in a lot of wasted time.
Try a poison spell build with herald of plague.
Or a spell fire build with herald of ash.
The problem isn't that the player doesn't know how to put it together, it's that someone at GGG doesn't want you to.
In spite of all of these complaints, the skill tree is the most fun I've had in the game.

With that being said, the trials and campaign are some of the worst experiences I've had in a video game.

Story? It took 1 act before the cheese got under my skin. RDR2 came close but even then, it's a cheese fest in some parts.
Playing a video game for the story is like going to the movies for the popcorn.
Thats not what the problem is.
The problem is that its absurdly long with underpowered abilities. Gems don't drop nearly often enough and the options available are almost useless. Skills need buffed the day before yesterday. Why is this game being advertised as a full release when whirling assault is (AND HAS BEEN) absolute crap? Buff all abilities to be on par with ones that YOU ABSOLUTELY KNOW ARE OP. Stop nerfing crap.
"Oh man, that hexblast looks like fun...NERF".
"Thats really sweet that you can make those herald skills chain like that....NERF".

And what makes this funny is that campaign issues are such an easy fix.
Buff the garbage skills and double the XP gain until level 80 then triple it.

The trials? Debuffs suck. It doesn't take a market analyst to come to that conclusion. They really suck after you've sunk 45 minutes of your time into it. That and XP loss are kind of married in that aspect. The game doesn't respect your time. And the players that defend it don't know the difference between difficulty and tedium.
Why in the world can you not start your trial in the floor above where you left off? If you defeat the scorpion, why can't you continue there once you get a coin?
How many players need to tell you that it's awful before you remove it?
Sure some players like it. Some people have given money to the Island Boys or are currently buying kale. That doesn't mean either of those things are good.

If you really want to consider something wild, imagine how many customers have been lost to these two things.
I personally know 5.

"

rob_korn#1745 wrote:

"

Woogie#5583 wrote:

The fact that you have 600hrs is almost an argument against the game being bad. Also Casual players of games don't play a game 600 hours in year.

600h is not an argument for or against the game being good or bad. It's a decade old company making a live game.

Some people still test every league as well, just to be sure that their opinion is still valid, especially on a young product (the good old : I don't wanna complain without having tried it entirely, which is a good approach imho).


You can have players still coming back, despite hating every second of it, because they have a long history of being treated well. That's called faith, and it lets you getting shat on until trust is lost entirely. That's the worst scenario that could happen, because when the effects appear, it's already way too late.

And finally, as always, casual doesn't mean much. Even hours played are irrelevant. Some players have 95% efficient 50hours, while I have 300 hours but I'm afk 80% of those.

Playing a game you hate every second of is insane. At that point it's almost as if you enjoy being miserable. If you aren't enjoying something stop. To say I hate this game and play it for 600 hours is not the something a sane person does.

"

Skyvortex#7923 wrote:

If you really want to consider something wild, imagine how many customers have been lost to these two things.
I personally know 5.

True

personally friends 3
online "friends" 4

"

Woogie#5583 wrote:

Playing a game you hate every second of is insane. At that point it's almost as if you enjoy being miserable. If you aren't enjoying something stop. To say I hate this game and play it for 600 hours is not the something a sane person does.

Did you forget it's over different iterations of a live game in EA ?

"

rob_korn#1745 wrote:

"

Woogie#5583 wrote:

Playing a game you hate every second of is insane. At that point it's almost as if you enjoy being miserable. If you aren't enjoying something stop. To say I hate this game and play it for 600 hours is not the something a sane person does.

Did you forget it's over different iterations of a live game in EA ?

This is the fourth iteration. So that's still an average of 150 hours per iteration. I have never played a game I "hated every second of" for more than a couple hours or so.


- Jonathon and Mark do at least 2 hours of live stream QA every season. They listen to feedback and answer questions. I can count on one hand how many developers do that.

- There have been HUGE improvements based on that feedback including Asynchronous trade. Stating that the "problem" is Jonathon is dismissive of these changes.

It seems that the majority of people that see no progress over the last year, just want the game to be a copy of POE1. Individuals who refuse to acknowledge the large amounts of improvements to this game over that time period, are never going to be happy.

If you gave this game 600 hrs and you hate it, just stop for now and maybe come back at full release. If you aren't enjoying something just stop.

"

Woogie#5583 wrote:

"

rob_korn#1745 wrote:

"

Woogie#5583 wrote:

Playing a game you hate every second of is insane. At that point it's almost as if you enjoy being miserable. If you aren't enjoying something stop. To say I hate this game and play it for 600 hours is not the something a sane person does.

Did you forget it's over different iterations of a live game in EA ?

This is the fourth iteration. So that's still an average of 150 hours per iteration. I have never played a game I "hated every second of" for more than a couple hours or so.


- Jonathon and Mark do at least 2 hours of live stream QA every season. They listen to feedback and answer questions. I can count on one hand how many developers do that.

- There have been HUGE improvements based on that feedback including Asynchronous trade. Stating that the "problem" is Jonathon is dismissive of these changes.

It seems that the majority of people that see no progress over the last year, just want the game to be a copy of POE1. Individuals who refuse to acknowledge the large amounts of improvements to this game over that time period, are never going to be happy.

If you gave this game 600 hrs and you hate it, just stop for now and maybe come back at full release. If you aren't enjoying something just stop.

Jonathan and Mark are irrelevant to what I told you.
I'm not talking about Jonathan being a problem or not. I'm not even talking about the game being good or bad.
I'm not talking about PoE1 copy. I'm not talking about improvements or not either.
Please stop reaching and read what I wrote for what I wrote it.

I just tried to remind you that state of the game and 600h are not necessarily related. Underligned key word. It means that it can, but it also can not.

Because there are cases that exist, and are not rare exceptions :

80% afk, 20% effective time.


It's an EA.


Live game with leagues.


And any combination of those 3, not even getting on people having hardware, software or connectivity issues, mtx fomo etc.
That's why 600h is all relative, and doesn't for sure mean insanity as you say.

For a 20% efficient dad that's 120h actual play time, 30hours per league. He barely finished the campaign, tried and failed endgame 1 time. Not even talking about testing many classes or different builds.

This guy, just starts now to have enough experience to think that this game may not be that great for him. You see 600h, he saw 1 endgame, only 3 different builds, out of all the possibilities, that he followed through the updates/fixes.
He kept coping, hoping GGG would fix, or that he could find something great. That's not insane considering GGG has been great at fixing and evolving for a decade.
Until hope dies abruptly (and that could be what we are seeing this league. I don't think so, but who knows).

"

Jonathan and Mark are irrelevant to what I told you.
I'm not talking about Jonathan being a problem or not. I'm not even talking about the game being good or bad.
I'm not talking about PoE1 copy. I'm not talking about improvements or not either.
Please stop reaching and read what I wrote for what I wrote it.

I just tried to remind you that state of the game and 600h are not necessarily related. Underligned key word. It means that it can, but it also can not.

Because there are cases that exist, and are not rare exceptions :

80% afk, 20% effective time.

Spoiler

Casual dad players with duties outside the game. Launches the game coming back from work. Spend some time chatting with guildies. Opens a zone, kills few zombies, kid comes. Afk
Comes back, zone reset, goes to the same zone kills zombies, get the objective. Progress !
Time to eat. Afk. Comes back from dinner, watches the new Tri podcast.
Ok time to progress. Nvm, sleep time for the kids, brb
Comes back, progresses a bit, inventory full, ports to town contemplating on the upgrades or failed crafts.
Damn, it's late already, customer meetings tomorrow, need to be in shape. be back tomorrow.

Stayed online for 6 to 11, 5hours played time on steam, actual play time 1to 2 hours

It's an EA.

Spoiler

Played this ranger, did the campaign with it. Took me 20 hours (80 if you are also the 20% effective dude). Wasn't so great honestly, don't really feel like mapping with that. Wasn't so fun.
Let me try this other build, maybe it will be better. Another 20 hours. Hum, better, but not great, but new build posted by DM, I should try it !
New character, another 19 hours (yes, he improves !).
New build is great ! Campaign was a chore, but now it's getting fun in maps. This is my chance to reach endgame bosses. Boom, 80 hours, can't find a citadel.
Nahhh man, that's boring, too many problems.
But that's GGG, they'll fix it, I'll stay positive !

Live game with leagues.

Spoiler

Let's try my build again, they changed many things about it. => repeat spoiler #2
Abyss was finally getting somewhere, hope this temple is better !
New class, new weapons, for sure I will find my fit, right ?
etc etc

And any combination of those 3, not even getting on people having hardware, software or connectivity issues, mtx fomo etc.
That's why 600h is all relative, and doesn't for sure mean insanity as you say.

For a 20% efficient dad that's 120h actual play time, 30hours per league. He barely finished the campaign, tried and failed endgame 1 time. Not even talking about testing many classes or different builds.

This guy, just starts now to have enough experience to think that this game may not be that great for him. You see 600h, he saw 1 endgame, only 3 different builds, out of all the possibilities, that he followed through the updates/fixes.
He kept coping, hoping GGG would fix, or that he could find something great. That's not insane considering GGG has been great at fixing and evolving for a decade.
Until hope dies abruptly (and that could be what we are seeing this league. I don't think so, but who knows).

Blaming Jonathon is literally the name of the thread which I was retorting.

My statement was "Playing a game you "hate every second of" is insanity. There was nothing in your comments that refuted that. I still stand by this.

You wrote "Did you forget it's over different iterations of a live game in EA ?" I did read that, I wasn't reaching I was elaborating.

Providing three random pieces of feedback doesn't have anything to do with playing a game for 600 hours that you hate every second being insane. I would politely ask you to read what I wrote.

GGG has been adding "fixes" or improvements to the game based on feedback. These improvements may not be the direction you want the game to go.

Again if you aren't enjoying a game after 600 hours stop playing it.