Build diversity practicaly non existent since 0.2.0

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arandan#3174 wrote:

I don't know how good your long term memory is, but last I checked they tried balancing the game after people got 'their' builds online in 0.1.

How well did that go for them again? You have yourselves to blame and you'll have to wait 3-4 months for any major balancing to be done again. Whine more, maybe you'll 'improve' the state of the game some more.

crazy idea here:
instead of nerfing the 10 things people actually like GGG should buff the 200 things that are essentially trash.
GGG doesnt do 'balance' btw, they fucking nuke things to the point of being completely unusable.

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kabooms#3788 wrote:

You can't have methodical combat in this game without nerfing density heavily like in the 80% range.

exactly this (that change = dead game and they damn well know it)

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Build diversity was also non-existent the last patch aswell, every class has 2 maybe 3 endgame viable builds if they're lucky.

Nah man, have to disagree here....we had waaay more diversity during 0.1 than with 0.2 now.

It doesen't mean that the diversity was high back than but compared to 0.2 it was way higher and thats my point here. :)

Where in 0.1 we had 4-7 good builds per class we now have 4-7 good builds in total. ^^

The methodical combat ends in the red valley. Fist two zones with a decent weapon is the best of PoE2. You see werewolves charging, you parry, disengage, throw a spear at the slinging little goblins, then deliver a killing blow to the werewolves with a whirlwind. Everyone's dead, you feel smart and cool.

After that it stops mattering where you throw your spear, parrying gets too dangerous, disengage barely tickles enemies with too low AoE, and in the end you just get overwhelmed anyway and instead of feeling smart and cool you feel like "why the hell didn't i just use like rake+SG"?

I tried playing campaign as huntress "as intended" by the devs, using the "recommended" gems and combos as an experiment and it's just so unbelievably bad. There's no tactical gameplay, just suffering.

People say we want an "easy game" but personally i just want the engaging gameplay intended by the developers to work.

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darsoma#4164 wrote:

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arandan#3174 wrote:

I don't know how good your long term memory is, but last I checked they tried balancing the game after people got 'their' builds online in 0.1.

How well did that go for them again? You have yourselves to blame and you'll have to wait 3-4 months for any major balancing to be done again. Whine more, maybe you'll 'improve' the state of the game some more.

Okay you're not really giving all the details here. In 0.1 ggg didn't just nerf every popular build... They nuked their mechanical functionality from orbit. The builds were NO LONGER PLAYABLE in any sense of the word "playable". That's not balancing. That's a blizzard entertainment tactic, and yes, it will always result in an infuriated community.

I don't want to use EA as the "excuse shield", but consider this as "stress test gameplay testers"
300k players will find extreme builds easier than any game designer who (sadly and factually) have tunnelvision.
Like Johathan did not understood how people don't have enough currency in campaign when the intended early game the drop is balanced around picking up rares to disenchant it. Players with lootfilter only pick up gold, currencies and rares that are good for their class. Which is an unintended way of playing.

Or watch a few "developers react to speedrunner" videos. Clearly when they make a game they don't prepare too much that a dedicated playerbase will optimise the fun out of their game, while they consider that the fun process. :D


So... the reaction that "every build was nuked from orbit".
Warrior community is now laughing that "welcome do our day1" XD
Yet this is a major design direction that needs to be considered:
In 0.1 there was like 5 builds that dominated the league. The message was unless you play this 3-5 builds, fun is denied.
Warriors cried in the corner that after T13 white mobs just oneshot you regardless of you having 25k armor, while sparkmages asked GGG to increase mob health at least a 100x because the game is too boring...

A bit of WoW comparison but I remember they had a difficult design choice. In WoW macros and UI mods allowed. They still ban any addons that play instead of you, but warning indicators are ok. (Ie a HUGE hazard sign screams in your face that you're standing in lava)
So it begged the question: should they design boss encounters for the purists players that will be easy for addon users
or
just try to convince players who are purists that they play hardcore?
Like the bosses still telegraphed their damage, but with addons you had a timer somewhere letting you know that an attack will come soon.
Many classes had rampup setup that took 35-45 seconds for burst damage.

So back to PoE2... This is a similar topic.
What type of endgame we want? that everyone runs on the map so fast as if you play a platformer game and become out of bounds, while the fights are just visual eye cancers? That's why I quit poe1 btw...
Or endgame enemies should be toned down.

And I would pick the second one, because personally I don't think you can create "meaningful combat" if endgame maps are technically statcheckers.
I don't feel that poe2 have skillshots or crowdcontrol skills that would be good against swarm based endgame.
We do have combo skills, but if its expected to kill hordes within a half seconds, the playerbase will shift towards 1skill build.
Even with more skills each build is closer to OneTrickPonies.

In PoE1 (while I played) you had to get a single target skill, an aoe skill, a defensive ability and 1-2 movement skill.

In PoE2 so far we have damage, more damage and even more damage skills.
I made a thread about this actually. Welcome to join the discussion.
(tldr Mark stated people prefer glasscannon builds, I argue that defensive playstyle is non-existent. The game actually punishes you to be a tank)
https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/3756352

if another video interview is done i would love to see an in depth discussion that revolves around this subject.
and see what the devs prioritize, build diversity or tight control. i don't think the two are compatible.

It's VISION !!! Currently it's go "Lightning Spear" or go home. Or buy boxes.

Build diversity has not changed from 0.1 to 0.2. There's never been any build diversity. The only thing that changed from 0.1 to 0.2 is what 2 or 3 skills actually do damage.

The funniest part about this is that lightning spear is just better for most builds. Acolyte of Chayula? Just go Chaos lightning spear. Stormweaver? Lightning spear. Invoker? Believe it or not, lightning spear.

Lightning spear is itself fine, nearly every other skill is complete and unredeemable trash.

So many backseat video game developers in this thread - how typical.
How many of you idiots were whining that spears were useless before someone figured this build out and then everybody else copy pasted it?

There will be a lot of broken things each patch from now on until at least 1.0 (and let's be honest way past that as well). Thanks to the psychotic reactions of this community to pretty much anything that they perceive as an afront to their enjoyment and/or time spent in what is essentially still a beta test, we can forget about getting ANY major changes mid 'league'.

This is what you wanted - this is what you got, so I suggest you stfu.

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This is what you wanted - this is what you got, so I suggest you stfu.

well aren't you the big man on campus. better do as your told, the hall monitor has spoken.