What the Hell Happened to Gamers?

Tldr but I agree. Bug fixes like not being able to hit the Titan(?) boss yes, but damn y'all are massive whiners.

Like damn let it BREATHE before nerfing it into oblivion.

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Arriadanae#2084 wrote:

That's a big wall of text to just say to people "Hey, the game you liked before has been made worse. It is YOUR fault and YOU should leave and go play somewhere else."

When GGG makes objectively bad decisions, they should be called out on it.

People like you telling others to leave are going to be the reason why the game will only have 15k players in a few years time because it only caters to a super small niche. Then when GGG wants to make PoE3, they stop updating it like with PoE1. Then the cycle continues. People get mad. GGG scrambles to update the old title. PoE3 and 2 and everybody between the two games get to suffer equally. Then Tencent shuts them down.

If you look at the old game's numbers, every big content update brought in MORE people. Of course, the numbers for that game are smaller than here still... But GGG should be trying to replicate that success recipe. Numbers should go up with every big update. As it is, people are leaving. The game is at 1/2 its original count.

So yes, keep advocating for people to leave and go play something else. That's a real good mentality for long term support.

You have POE1(by the same company, too!), LE, D3, D4 and Vampire Survivors.
People who want a challenging ARPG have nothing new, nothing on the horizon.
Not every game needs to be made for you - other types of people and gamers should have games to play as well.
There is a very big player base of Diablo-ARPG players looking for a game like current POE2, and we've been waiting 2 decades for it.

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Lebigcheez#8190 wrote:

TL;DR: This is Early Access, so if GGG is smart they'll pump out 4+ abhorrent beta builds before getting 1 or 2 right and then launching 1.0. PoE 2 is not loot simulator, and that's a good thing. The same gameplay elements that make a game like Dark Souls 2 "good" should also make PoE 2 "good"; for some reason, they don't.

But its not. Dark Souls works very differently from POE2.

The mob Density alone makes a massive difference. POE2 is not Dark Souls, not even close. Its very different games.

One of teh best example sis that Mobs in Dark Souls are not "Bullet Sponges" the mobs there have high damage, but also take a good amount of Damage. Which makes the fight not long. You must be cxareful and methodical with every mob in Dark Souls. In POE2 a singular Mob cant really harm you, a rare might get dangerous sometimes, but the thing is it takes significantly longer to kill a rare, in the campaign, than it takes to kill a mob in Dark Souls. A boss Fight in Dark souls takes when you are good with good equipment 1,5-3 min depending on the Boss. In POE2 the Boss fights take a lot longer and you also attack a lot more often than you do in dark souls. POE2 has vbery light similarities to DS.

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I've been playing ARPGs since Chrono Cross on the PS1 when I was 4 years old. BG:DA, CoN: RTA, OSRS (lol) - I'm a lifetime gamer. PoE 1 instantly became a forever favorite of mine, and by a country mile PoE 2 outclasses it in every way I can imagine as far as pushing the limits of and exciting me for the ARPG genre. Because of this, I've come to believe that most people don't enjoy legitimate Action RPGs, but rather they enjoy gambling, loot collecting, and theorycrafting. Path of Exile's lineage was built on the latter as being the apex of theorycrafting, something PoE 2 manages to preserve. Unfortunately, I believe the dopamine hit and gratification associated with overcoming struggle is too delayed comparative to "mobile game"-like gameplay associated with the average ARPG: detonating a screen, leveling up, picking up loot, getting high. I sincerely hope that's not what becomes of PoE 2, but I fear that, due to extreme backlash like today's, it's where we're inevitably headed.

I want to interject here. "overcoming the struggle"
To me it doesnt feel like im struggling at all. Its not hard.
I really dont knwo what people are complaining about. I mean yes the Campaign is boring, but thats a different story alltogether.

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Lebigcheez#8190 wrote:

"This is Early Access, so if GGG is smart they'll pump out 4+ abhorrent beta builds before getting 1 or 2 right and then launching 1.0."

Early access isn't a free pass for developers to recklessly disrupt the core gameplay loop at every turn. Calling for multiple 'abhorrent' builds is disrespectful to players investing their time and money.

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Lebigcheez#8190 wrote:

"I've come to believe that most people don't enjoy legitimate Action RPGs, but rather they enjoy gambling, loot collecting, and theorycrafting."

An absurd elitism oversimplification. It's ridiculous to frame legitimate player enjoyment as some inferior pursuit simply because it doesn't align with your skewed view of what constitutes 'LEGITIMATE' gaming.

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Lebigcheez#8190 wrote:

"A game like Dark Souls comes out, obliterates a million people for months, and is heralded as one of the greatest Action games of all time as a consequence of how exhiliarating it is to overcome a legitimate challenge through use of mechanical skill, character build, and dedicated effort."

STOP COMPARING WITH DARK SOULS. POE 2 does not provide the same gameplay as Souls-like games. Making fights tediously long by nerfing builds doesn't magically transform PoE 2 into a Souls-like experience.

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Lebigcheez#8190 wrote:

"If that's not for you, PoE 2 is not for you. Please accept that and go away so that a good thing can have its fair chance before it's ruined before it ever left EA."

Oh, forgive us mere mortals for daring to criticize your flawless masterpiece. Clearly, our dissatisfaction and feedback are the true threats to PoE 2, not the blatant design oversights. How noble of you to suggest we all just vanish quietly, preserving your precious echo chamber. Perhaps if we leave, you can finally enjoy your perfect game alone, untouched by reality and criticism.

Whenever you swing out such a wide net trying to pander to so many different types of people there will always be groups that hate certain parts of the game. They will come on the internet to complain always.

Also this is a feedback forum.

Also GGG probably doesnt even read any of this unless there are political or offensive keywords in the post.

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ShiyoKozuki#4168 wrote:

You have POE1(by the same company, too!), LE, D3, D4 and Vampire Survivors.
People who want a challenging ARPG have nothing new, nothing on the horizon.
Not every game needs to be made for you - other types of people and gamers should have games to play as well.
There is a very big player base of Diablo-ARPG players looking for a game like current POE2, and we've been waiting 2 decades for it.

The problem with PoE2 is that it is NOT challenging in the slightest. It's tedious, drawn out and boring AF. GGG thinks adding challenge is to... well... draw everything out, make it tedious and ensure players hit a brick wall and have to backtrack to grind gear in previous areas.

GGG seems to love Diablo 2 a lot (and I do too), but a good half of the qualities of Diablo 2 that made it what is was were limitations to its engine, then what Blizz wanted to do back then.

People seem to conveniently forget that by the time you're doing Chaos and Baal runs (equivalent of maps in PoE1/2) in D2 that it is literally a zoom-boom enigma teleport fest to evaporate mobs off the face of the planet as fast as possible. Yet, GGG and people praise it for being the gold standard of a challenging ARPG. Like hello. Wake up.

Edit: And even then during the campaign in D2, there are clearly things vastly better than others and trivialize that whole process. Trapsin being one. Classic hammerdin. Classic Javazon. Frenzy barb is insane too because you run around faster than an enigma teleporter and attack so fast the game breaks.

(Edit: I play D2R quite regularly, btw.)

Take off the rose-tinted glasses. Go play Elden Ring or Dark Souls if you want challenge. You haven't waited 20 years for anything.

I partially agree with you, that this is the purpose of doing an Early Access.

However, introducing the LONG AWAITED Raise Spectre gem and having 600 options to choose from. Then the reality hits and 599 options are worse than autoattacking mobs with your fists, and 1 option is batshit broken that is likely getting nerfed/fixed soon.

Thats not testing, that is a damn cluelessness, pardon my french.

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Lebigcheez#8190 wrote:

Early access isn't a free pass for developers to recklessly disrupt the core gameplay loop at every turn

Even if we accept that as true, which is already a reach given that this constraint on the definition of Early Access is entirely of your own devising, the changes in this patch did nothing whatsoever to alter the core gameplay loop. Whether or not you consider the changes to be "reckless" I guess is up to you, but personally I don't understand what criteria you are using to characterize them as such. They might be more dramatic than you were expecting, but recklessness suggests the changes were made willy-nilly with no rhyme or reason or goal in mind which I think you will have to agree is a pretty absurd claim since they announced in advance their intentions to make changes which would significantly slow the pace of the game and that seems to be the chief complaint.

I love all these posts that come to offer a long, drawn-out analysis and explanation for how I feel, but these never include any self-awareness that their perspective and experience do not invalidate the perspectives and experiences of others.

I'm glad you like the game, bro, but it doesn't make you right. Nor does it mean you understand the playerbase.

Getting to the forgemaster fight in 2 and seeing how difficult it was at area level was really fun. Leaving, leveling up, and coming back to easily defeat it cause I was overleveled was less fun. Difficulty is only fun when you're given the tools to understand why you failed and when you're given OPTIONS for how to fix it.

There are plenty of other games, including other ARPGs that know how to make encounters difficult while still letting the player feel powerful and have fun. POE 2 struggle with this for a lot of people. Arguing from the perspective of your own enjoyment and dismissing the experiences of everyone else as "they don't want to play, they just want to win" just means that not only do you not understand others, you're actively avoiding any attempt to do so.

To summarize: "What happened to posters? They don't want to understand the frustration of others, they just want to be right."

For this game to have slow and meaningful combat everything would have to change
They to far to do this.
For slow combat
you need way less mobs dropping shit every ware
Servers would have to be 1000% better This is why slow combat games are single player games as even slightest lag will kill you, especially like in this game when 90% of mobs can one shot you.
XP will need rework with speed of killing there is no way we can reach max level.
Loot and crafting will need rework you can not have this level of RNG with slow combat. as then you will be stuck at one point for very long time this would be very boring.
I did try on standard end game as I have insane good gear I did create new sorc build with 500k DPS until I run out of mana. at this damage I can sustain this damage for about 30 sec after that my mana pod is empty and to sustain this i have to spam my mana pod every second ability, mana potion use should never be so often if you creating meaningful combat.
So for sustain damage you need to drop to around 80k DPS at this dps I will run out of mana pot after 2 min so you need to kill Bose before that.
With 80k dps I can not finish Breach +3 as mobs are stronger now and I run out of time so I can't even get to boss.
Citadel at +3 I do almost no damage one fight lasted just over 5 min and I did die as I runout of mana and HP

Now all this is with legacy gear which you can not get in new league.
I did make build which would represent what you can get in league and I can tell you, you will not be able to finish lowest Breach, you will run out of time.

This is all with lvl 97 so I have lots of point to experiment with build and nothing works.
I can do T16 and bosses but I have to use old gear new nerf gear don't work.