Congratulations.

"

JakkerONAIR#4902 wrote:

"

Akedomo#3573 wrote:

Good games don't lose 94% of their playerbase over 2-3 months. That's considered a flop. This is a live service game. League of legends doesn't have dips of 94% of players leaving. Dota 2 doesn't. Apex Legends doesn't. Why does PoE get to be the exception? All these other games are seasonal in a lot of ways too. New patches, new content.

Are you kidding?

League of Legends, Dota 2, and Apex Legends are team-based multiplayer games with a ladder to climb, where ppl queue and play matches.
Furthermore, they are NOT ARPGs. So HOW you play the game (the "end goal") is entirely different.

"

I gave you plenty of examples as to why it's not a very good game. Everything from Microtransactions. To things like XP loss on death. This is exactly what the forums were flooded with a few months ago. It's the majority opinion of your average gamer. They don't like XP loss on death, and they don't play games with it.

YOU think it's not a good game. But I guess YOU are right and everyone else is wrong.
The long-term success of GGG - is wrong.
The ever-growing community - is wrong.
The Steam Reviews that end up with "very positive" - are wrong.

"

Some do. But they don't stay. Healthy, thriving games have healthy, stable populations. Not huge dips and spikes. Imagine if your heartrate was like this. Do you think you'd feel very good?

Comparing a game cycle with heart rates...

So... you think that it is an unstable player population when it looks like this:
150k - Scourge (2021-10-22)
158k - Archnemesis (2022-02-04)
131k - Sentinel (2022-05-13)
152k - Kalandra (2022-08-19)
127k - Sanctum (2022-12-09)
211k - Crucible (2023-04-07)
165k - Ancestor (2023-08-18)
167k - Affliction (2023-12-08)
189k - Necropolis (2024-03-29)
229k - Settlers (2024-07-26)

Overall, not only do ppl come back, but the retention is GROWING.

"

PoE does not have good player retention. That is a fact. And I've used achievements to back this argument up, as well as my own experiences to describe how they're connected. I've also included examples of other games with healthier, more stable playerbases. Other live-service games. Just like PoE. League, DotA 2, Apex Legends, Fortnite. Among others. All have seasonal content too, events. Yet they maintain much more stable playerbases.

Holy, not every live-service game is like every other live-service game.
You only use examples that are as irrelevant as it even gets.
And that you say "PoE does not have good player retention. That is a fact." over and over again, without it being a fact, only shows that you don't understand what "player retention" is.
I already posted the definition, but here it is again:
Player retention is a term used to describe the ability of a gaming platform or company to retain its players or users over a period of time. It is a key metric that measures the success of a game or gaming business in keeping players engaged and interested in their offerings.

If you can NOT comprehend that the retention in a short season doesn't matter because it's about the "long-term" player retention - it's a you problem.

"

So out of that huge spike of players that you keep bragging about and constant growth. Less than 12% of them, have ever hit level 80. Hitting level 80 is incredibly easy. You can do it in just a few evenings of play after you finish the acts.

Who? Cares? Your Steam achievement argument is meaningless. Not only because GGG actually knows when ppl stop playing the game and gave already interviews on that matter, but furthermore - it doesn't make sense.

You say "but only 12% on Steam reached lvl 80". Ok... and!?
Around 12% of players only reached "Plat" in "League of Legends".
It's meaningless, period.

It's always the same with you. You look at something and make an extremely flawed conclusion.
"Path of Exile 1" was released on Steam in 2013. That's over 10 years of ppl who try out a FREE2PLAY game and did not reach level 80.
Do you know how many ppl try other games and don't reach a specific point?
Yeah... again... meaningless.

"

You have also argued there's a large competitive scene around this game. Not just in terms of Economy. But also in regards to races. You have been in the other thread defending GGG's warning/bans over the widescreen hack, because you claim it gives players an advantage, and competitive integrity is important in this game. As competition is a core aspect of it. Your words. Not directly quoted. But you've said similar.

Okay. Well. My statement. There's not as many players as you think there is, engaging in competition in this game.

Bla. You never ever heard of the "PoE Gauntlet". Next nonsensical part...

"

Atziri, Easiest late-game boss to do. Just open a portal with some items you find/buy. 3% of the games playerbase has done it.

Again. Your Steam achievement argument doesn't matter.
Furthermore, you never ever killed Atziri and that you think that she is the easiest one shows that you have no clue about the game at all.
Hell, you never ever 6-linked an item and make suck statements...

"

The game does indeed have a good amount of players that play the Leagues when they come out.

But they don't hit late-game in them. Most people play them till level 50-80. And quit. And then.. What's left, is players like you.

Again. You have nothing to base your statement on. What? sTeAm AcHiEvMeNtS?
Nobody... cares. They represent EVERY single person over a decade that tried PoE and not how many ppl reach endgame in a specific league.

"

You are the minority.

Nope.

"

Akedomo#3573 wrote:

Jakker, Go back and answer my questions.

I spent significantly longer on that message than you spent on this reactionary one. Go back. Re-read. Think about what you're going to write to answer those questions. It's FULL of them.

Answer them. Don't ignore them. Don't try to tell me i'm wrong. Answer them.

"

JakkerONAIR#4902 wrote:

"

Akedomo#3573 wrote:

Jakker, Go back and answer my questions.

I spent significantly longer on that message than you spent on this reactionary one. Go back. Re-read. Think about what you're going to write to answer those questions. It's FULL of them.

Answer them. Don't ignore them. Don't try to tell me i'm wrong. Answer them.

Nope. You think you know better with your nonsensical conclusions, and I have already wasted enough time reading all of it.

That you think you knew better than me... ok, sure. But you even think you know better than GGG.

"

Akedomo#3573 wrote:

Look. I've written out a long. Thoughtful message. I proof read it, and even formatted for you. I have you given you my statements. My reasonings, and then asked you a question/s.

You completely ignored every single one of the questions posed to you. All you did was try to convince me of your side again.


Ask yourself. Why are you unable to answer these questions? I wrote you that entire message in good faith. I want to have a discussion with you. I want to hear your answers.

Why are you now telling me No?

"

JakkerONAIR#4902 wrote:

Because it literally doesn't matter.

"

JakkerONAIR#4902 wrote:

You know, there is a great interview with Chris Wilson. It's already 2 years old, but the core themes and information are still relevant today.

"

Akedomo#3573 wrote:

Then why are you on the forums arguing with everyone about all this stuff.

It clearly matters to you.

"

JakkerONAIR#4902 wrote:

You know, there is a great interview with Chris Wilson. It's already 2 years old, but the core themes and information are still relevant today.

"

Akedomo#3573 wrote:

Yup, and what I've realized is that. Sometimes game developers are wrong. Sometimes they have a vision or idea for a game that just doesn't vibe with most people.

"

JakkerONAIR#4902 wrote:

To be more precise, it doesn't matter arguing with YOU.

"

JakkerONAIR#4902 wrote:

Tell me you haven't seen the interview without telling me.
You know better than Chris Wilson. Understood.

"

Ulsarek#7159 wrote:

Funny for you to mention a game that has become a prime example of what happens when you listen to feedback of vocal minorities. The game was thriving for a very long time after the reboot, I give you that. It took them only two expansions worth of bad decisions to not only push away their core player base, they have also dropped to pre 2019 levels of player numbers.

Taking away complexity, nuance, constantly lowering skill ceilings, appealing to the masses rather than your target audience, homogenizing roles classes and combat, dumbing down story writing and drip feeding content sure is working it's magic. But hey, at least the game is now accessible for anyone am I right?

Designing a game for everyone is designing a game for no one. Know your target audience and build on that - game development 101. If you're not part of a games target audience and have reasonable, sensible feedback - great. That however doesn't mean the developers have to give in to any and all demands - GGG has a proven track record of being good with that. Otherwise do yourself a favor and play something else without trying to ruin it for everyone else in the process.

Thankfully GGG knows better which is why after ~13 years we still have systems like the death penalty in place.