EXP LOSS WHEN DYING IS STUPID

"

JakkerONAIR#4902 wrote:

The moment you realise that the shop prices for things are the same (globally), but the price for the shop currency is different depending on the region.

The same as any other game. What's your point?

"

JakkerONAIR#4902 wrote:

You don't turn your "real money" into "shop currency" so you lose track of how much you spend, and thus GGG can "scam" you or something.

No, Jakker. That is PRECISELY why it's done that way. This is why almost every game with microtransactions has a premium currency, and why they hide the dollar amount from players.

This is why it's being legislated against.

You're not arguing against me. You're arguing against psychology, and a government. Do you think you understand Microtransactions better than the EU government? Or Psychologists? Or the Chinese government?

"

JakkerONAIR#4902 wrote:

It's generalised in the shop, so they don't need to create a separate shop for each region on the planet. Anyway.

Everything is digital, and online. Easily scripted to change currency values. Easy to make digital payments. There's no need to create a separate shop at all. This argument is not carrying any weight.

If I can go onto literally any website around the world, and buy something using my credit card. Regardless of what currency it's in, and these websites can even display a converted amount, in my local currency. There's zero reason a game can't do the same.

"

JakkerONAIR#4902 wrote:

Your point that "look you can buy 200 points but thingy X costs 210 points, that's done on purpose to force you into spending more yadda yadda" COULD be a thing, but it's dishonest selection bias.

Can you explain to me how it's selection bias when it's one of the most rampant ways that companies use with microtransactions to exploit their customers? It's in almost every single Microtransaction game. Vast majority have premium currencies, and items priced in such a way to get you to buy just a little bit more premium currency.

The legislation exists to protect vulnerable people. And tons of people simply don't understand how this is manipulative. You're a great example of someone that this legislation is aimed at helping. Why are you defending the practice?

"

JakkerONAIR#4902 wrote:

How do you explain that many, many things in the shop are below that? You can buy 100 points but get something for 70 or 90? Yeah...

And then you're left over with 30 points. Which then sits there, and you think "Well, It's wasted unless I buy a bit more currency to purchase this other 80 point item."

Bam. PoE just got another 5 bucks out of you.

"

JakkerONAIR#4902 wrote:

And more importantly, most ppl never ever buy the raw points, unless they REALLY want something and are short on points. Normally, ppl buy supporter packs.

How do you know this? The other guy said the same thing. How do you know how people are purchasing their points?

T

"

JakkerONAIR#4902 wrote:

hese packs come already with cosmetics and on top include the same amount of points for the shop you would get if you bought the points separately.

That's great. Still doesn't mean people aren't purchasing points regularly

"

Akedomo#3573 wrote:

The same as any other game. What's your point?

Not "every other game" does regional pricing for their MTX shop.

"

Everything is digital, and online. Easily scripted to change currency values. Easy to make digital payments. There's no need to create a separate shop at all. This argument is not carrying any weight.

If I can go onto literally any website around the world, and buy something using my credit card. Regardless of what currency it's in, and these websites can even display a converted amount, in my local currency. There's zero reason a game can't do the same.

That's a fair point. If you think it's easily doable, then make a post about it and recommend this change.

"

And then you're left over with 30 points. Which then sits there, and you think "Well, It's wasted unless I buy a bit more currency to purchase this other 80 point item."

Bam. PoE just got another 5 bucks out of you.

But that's a consumer issue. If you have 20 bucks to spend and a MTX costs you 17 bucks - ppl who have low self-control will spend the last 3 bucks on something anyway.

"

JakkerONAIR#4902 wrote:

And more importantly, most ppl never ever buy the raw points, unless they REALLY want something and are short on points. Normally, ppl buy supporter packs.

"

How do you know this? The other guy said the same thing. How do you know how people are purchasing their points?

Years of experience, where you can see ppl recommending to get points via "supporter packs" instead of the "raw" purchases all over the place, and the raw purchases weren't mentioned a single time in reports from GGG, where they told us what makes them money.
Sadly, it's not "hard evidence", but if ppl buy points for 30 bucks instead of buying a supporter pack for 30 bucks... where they get the same amount of points AND cosmetics on top...

+1

If they don't remove exp penalty or at least give people back 6 portals per map then this game will never get anywhere near the 580k player peak it had on launch. People don't want to play hardcore but in softcore, and they also don't like their hours of playtime being deleted because of a random oneshot. The evidence for that is just how many players the game has lost, over 90% lmao

I'm just curious how long it will take for the game to change, and just how late it will happen when people have long since quit and uninstalled. Countless pages of feedback have already been given on these forums, repeating the same things is kinda pointless now. The problems with this game should already be crystal clear.

Nulled.

"

JakkerONAIR#4902 wrote:

Not "every other game" does regional pricing for their MTX shop.

That's the problem. That's why the government is stepping in.

"

JakkerONAIR#4902 wrote:

That's a fair point. If you think it's easily doable, then make a post about it and recommend this change.

That's the problem. That's why the government is stepping in. The companies won't. Because they're making tons of money. Companies love taking advantage of things to make money, Till someone steps in and says hey, you can't do that. Like...

The Government! That's what they're there for after all.

"

JakkerONAIR#4902 wrote:

But that's a consumer issue. If you have 20 bucks to spend and a MTX costs you 17 bucks - ppl who have low self-control will spend the last 3 bucks on something anyway.

That's the problem. That's why the government is stepping in.

Not everyone has the same level of 'self control' usually due to cognitive issues, intelligence, lack of experience, mental health problems. Children are also targeted by them in some games.

Can't just say 'Welp, it's your fault you spent money' These games are psychologically optimized to extract the most amount of money/time out of people. They prey on people with these vulnerabilities.

"

JakkerONAIR#4902 wrote:

Years of experience, where you can see ppl recommending to get points via "supporter packs" instead of the "raw" purchases all over the place, and the raw purchases weren't mentioned a single time in reports from GGG, where they told us what makes them money.
Sadly, it's not "hard evidence", but if ppl buy points for 30 bucks instead of buying a supporter pack for 30 bucks... where they get the same amount of points AND cosmetics on top...

So you complain in my other post that my 'anecdotal evidence' isn't good enough. And then you use it yourself.

I guarantee people aren't just buying supporter packs. And even if they were. There's still the issue with the way things are priced. You will be short, or have left over money. This is manipulative, and predatory.

Which is why it's being legislated against.

Like I said. Who are you arguing with? Do you think you know more about microtransactions than EU/Chinese government? Psychologists? Why do more and more games use Microtransactions?

Why would they spend time in office, looking to ban this stuff if it was all as benign as you're claiming? Why would more and more Governments be implementing laws against this sort of stuff?


There's dozens of mental health issues alone that screw with peoples ability to regulate, to self control. You cannot just claim they should have the same level of self control that you have. It doesn't work that way.

It's no wonder you're struggling to understand this. You need to look at it from the viewpoint of others, that aren't like yourself. People all have different minds. The same way someone can be born with 4 fingers, or a tail. Someone can be born with a mind that struggles with things like math, time. Impulse control, addictive tendencies.

This is a huge problem in society these days, and it's good to see Governments FINALLY starting to help these people live easier lives.

"

Akedomo#3573 wrote:

So you complain in my other post that my 'anecdotal evidence' isn't good enough. And then you use it yourself.

Well, the difference is - that I present it as "anecdotal evidence", thus not as a fact (hard evidence), so I don't pretend it is.

"

It's no wonder you're struggling to understand this. You need to look at it from the viewpoint of others, that aren't like yourself. People all have different minds. The same way someone can be born with 4 fingers, or a tail. Someone can be born with a mind that struggles with things like math, time. Impulse control, addictive tendencies.

I actually don't struggle to understand it. You just throw all companies that have microtransactions via "shop currency" in the same boat - malice.

I am on the side that the regulations stop every single company from "shop currency" and just use real money values on their stuff.

"

Ulsarek#7159 wrote:

"

Toforto#2372 wrote:

I'm just curious how long it will take for the game to change, and just how late it will happen when people have long since quit and uninstalled. Countless pages of feedback have already been given on these forums, repeating the same things is kinda pointless now. The problems with this game should already be crystal clear.

Probably never. At least not in the way you guys want to - it isn't in GGG's interest nor design philosophy. See Path of Exile 1, 12 years later with the exp penalty still being there - and that game was a great success. Still is. PoE 2 will be no different. Mark my words.

Great success from the perspective as of 20 years ago. Not sure about that today. There is a reason poe2 was developed. There is still no minecraft2 in comparison. It is not the graphics that make you develop a new game. In my mind, GGG is reacting way slower as usual, because of the marketing team. The analysts need some time to get feedback and make decissions. Then something half baked gets thrown together. ( And probably something cool was at hand all along...) You watch how the market develops. Rince and repeat. In my mind that's why there is no act 4,5,6. Even with only 6 years of developement, that has been 6 years with the same quantity of work as right now. Still 2 games to develop. I mean their laws or not. I have a hard time believing they havn't had enough time building a team to support both games adequatly. But thats all just in my mind.

"

JakkerONAIR#4902 wrote:

Well, the difference is - that I present it as "anecdotal evidence", thus not as a fact (hard evidence), so I don't pretend it is.

I never presented mine as fact either. I gave you my experience. You don't know how much of this game I've played, or my knowledge on it, all that guy did was look at my achievements on this account. You keep claiming that I don't know what I'm talking about. I've played enough games to know. I've also played plenty of Path of Exile to know. Second account. Lost the first. This is my steam account. My original was a closed beta.

"

JakkerONAIR#4902 wrote:

I actually don't struggle to understand it. You just throw all companies that have microtransactions via "shop currency" in the same boat - malice.

You are though. Because you view it as black and white. Good or bad. Many of these games end up in a grey area because they have predatory microtransactions, but aren't on the same level as a phone game might be.

That doesn't mean they're not malicious. That just means you're willing to excuse it. You accept it.

Here's the issue. You can be fair. You can choose to be fair. The fairest way to sell a game is to do your best to design a good fun game, and then just sell it outright. Or offer it for free. You buy the game, you play the game, no other strings attached.

The moment you add in a way to get 'a little bit more money' by removing game content, or designing your game in a way that is aimed at having you spending more money, or time in it. Intentionally. Is when it stops being fair. That's when it starts becoming malicious. Yes, they're just looking for more money. I understand that.

But in the process, there are a lot of people that get harmed by this. And the companies know this. They know that people are playing PoE for 15,000 hours for instance. They know that they designed the game to be more addicting. They know that some people are spending thousands of dollars on stuff in free to play games. That's when the game stops being about fun, and enjoyment. That's when it starts being about profits.

I can excuse some games for being more fair than others. Like games just selling cosmetics. But I still need to look at other games where they do these little extra things, and recognize it as a unfair. That people get taken advantage of. I can still look at all the little manipulative ways they try to eek out more money out of people. And I can then recognize it as malicious.

"

Toforto#2372 wrote:

If they don't remove exp penalty or at least give people back 6 portals per map then this game will never get anywhere near the 580k player peak it had on launch.

It will remain fine just like PoE1, even with the vocal minority being all upset about a death penalty.

"

People don't want to play hardcore but in softcore, and they also don't like their hours of playtime being deleted because of a random oneshot.

More like don't play a zhp character and you're not going to really struggle.

"

The evidence for that is just how many players the game has lost, over 90% lmao

Did the game really "lost" 90% of its players, or are people simply already done playing/testing the current state of the early access? More likely the latter, which is not a surprise given the current state of the game, lack of content, and build diversity. Not to mention, it took GGG quite some time to fix a crucial issue that prevented many players from even playing the game without experiencing crashes.

Depending on how good or bad the upcoming patch is, it will show just how alive the game still is, even with the so 'scary' and 'bad' death penalty


Nonetheless, the death penalty isn't going anywhere for obvious reasons. If you want an easy, instant gratification ARPG, there are other options on the market.

"

kosmo_blacksmith#5449 wrote:

Great success from the perspective as of 20 years ago. Not sure about that today.

The game isn't even 20 years old, and even 10 years ago, it wasn't nearly as successful as it is today. Even now, many players still return to play new leagues and events simply because the game remains successful, even with a successful sequel on the market. lol

"

There is still no minecraft2 in comparison.

There will probably never be a Minecraft 2, with Microsoft now owning the trademark for the game and showing no interest in investing in a better and more modern sequel. It's easier and cheaper to simply release a few minor updates or copy-pasted mods to keep the younger zoomer audience entertained.

"

"

kosmo_blacksmith#5449 wrote:

Great success from the perspective as of 20 years ago. Not sure about that today.

The game isn't even 20 years old, and even 10 years ago, it wasn't nearly as successful as it is today. Even now, many players still return to play new leagues and events simply because the game remains successful, even with a successful sequel on the market. lol

"

There is still no minecraft2 in comparison.

There will probably never be a Minecraft 2, with Microsoft now owning the trademark for the game and showing no interest in investing in a better and more modern sequel. It's easier and cheaper to simply release a few minor updates or copy-pasted mods to keep the younger zoomer audience entertained.

Poe wasnt just there. It was developed too. 20 years looks kinda accurate to me. They had a vision at that time and presumably no money. Did not want to research how long it took them. Certainly impressive. But really successful? I play games for a long time now. Bought a copy of D2, two copys D3, one D4 and even torchlight2 and sacred2. But not one time I installed poe. When D3 was peak bs, poe came out. A friend invited me. Was so burned out from D3 that I didnt want to touch another arpg. The common opinion around that time was kind of similar. Poe was really nische and not well marketed. The most impressive evolution of an arpg by far and in that regard, yes very successful. Not G6 successful, though.

The target audience for minecraft can not legally mtx. So there is no reason for them to develope minecraft2. You make a new game, if you want that revenue model. But it has to pay out in the first place.