Bot/RMT spam is out of control in POE2EA.

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StrykerxS77x#8221 wrote:

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Wilmots#7633 wrote:

they do so because people are buying their stuff. Gamers in 2025 are the real issue here.

People trying to P2W path of exile are truly pitiful. I feel bad for them.

Completely understand what your saying but its a pve game so no such thing as pay to win. Pvp is pay to win. In a pve game it's basically a single player. Agreed it shouldn't be happening but poe2 pitiful drop rates feel as if causing rmt is intentional.

But in a pve game it's not pay to win because they are playing for fun and not competing with anyone. Its personal enjoyment.

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outlander19900#0213 wrote:

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StrykerxS77x#8221 wrote:

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Wilmots#7633 wrote:

they do so because people are buying their stuff. Gamers in 2025 are the real issue here.

People trying to P2W path of exile are truly pitiful. I feel bad for them.

Completely understand what your saying but its a pve game so no such thing as pay to win. Pvp is pay to win. In a pve game it's basically a single player. Agreed it shouldn't be happening but poe2 pitiful drop rates feel as if causing rmt is intentional.

But in a pve game it's not pay to win because they are play

Thating for fun and not competing with anyone. Its personal enjoyment.

That's incorrect.

Everyone who is not SSF plays in a shared economy with limited resources.
If one normal human being could only generate "x amount of divines" by super-efficient farming/playing, but someone else can get "multiple times the x amount of divines" via RMTing, then it's "Pay2Win", depending on how you define P2W.

Someone who is RMTing would have an advantage on the market (in the economy) above everyone who is not.
If you farm a week for a really rare item on trade, but someone is able to get it after a few minutes because he bought the needed in-game currency with real money, he "won" the economic race with spending money, thus P2W.

It actually doesn't matter if you think it's P2W or not because it is.
There are many areas that negatively affect non-RMT players when ppl are RMTing because the game is NOT single player outside of SSF.

I dont think most people who play care about any of that. With the average player basically playing alone and not not actively engaging in economy. How many people do you actually think are traders in poe? I can assure you it's not many and if they were they wouldn't be using rmt as they would be making there own currency.

Apart from enabling rmt bots and companies people making rmt purchases have no effect on the economy as all the currency they buy was actually dropped by the game anyway. If it's obtained by hacking then it's bad for economy but game dropped currency changing hands is in no way responsible for any damage to the economy, that's all on ggg.

So basically when I made my 5 yo son an account and transfered a ton of gear and divs to him that he didn't earn himself so we can coop together is pay to win and affecting the economy?

Doesnt matter if people pay or don't pay. If it's legitimately earn through the game then who cares who ends up with it. Trust me is not even close to pay to win sounds like you dont have much experience actually playing pay to win games.

Geeeeeeee

make game sweaty...
Blame people selling deodorant.

Bad itemization and no crafting are partially to blame

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outlander19900#0213 wrote:

I dont think most people who play care about any of that. With the average player basically playing alone and not not actively engaging in economy. How many people do you actually think are traders in poe? I can assure you it's not many and if they were they wouldn't be using rmt as they would be making there own currency.

It doesn't matter what you are thinking when the reality looks different.
Most ppl engage with trade, that's why they play trade and not SSF.

And your argument "not many yadda yadda" is a baseless strawman.
Ppl who RMT do it no matter how much currency they can make without RMT.

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Apart from enabling rmt bots and companies people making rmt purchases have no effect on the economy as all the currency they buy was actually dropped by the game anyway. If it's obtained by hacking then it's bad for economy but game dropped currency changing hands is in no way responsible for any damage to the economy, that's all on ggg.

You don't understand what you are talking about.
Normally, when items get traded someone has to farm a resource to exchange it for something else.
If someone is able to buy a resource with resources outside of the game the in-game resources get removed from the economy without something getting back in.
And that's only a side issue.
The bigger problem is, that it takes time to gather in-game resources to trade with, while it takes only a few minutes to use outside resources (money) to trade with. That's a huge advantage generated by something outside of the game.

This affects everyone who is part of the economy, more or less depending on how much they engage with it. Low-value items lose their value faster, high-value items go up in price earlier, accessibility becomes more unfair and so on, the list is long.

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So basically when I made my 5 yo son an account and transfered a ton of gear and divs to him that he didn't earn himself so we can coop together is pay to win and affecting the economy?

That's not "Pay2Win", you just trade something to someone else. Do you need a definition of "P2W"?
Besides that your 5-year-old son shouldn't play the game in the first place, you don't trade in-game resources for outside gains. If your son would pay you money for the items, yes... that's RMT.

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Doesnt matter if people pay or don't pay. If it's legitimately earn through the game then who cares who ends up with it. Trust me is not even close to pay to win sounds like you dont have much experience actually playing pay to win games.

I don't trust someone who doesn't even understand the fundamentals of "Pay2Win", so no.

I already presented why RMTing is bad for everyone who is part of the economy and I could go on longer. But besides that, not only is it extremely harmful to the player base - it's against the "Terms of Use/Service" (EULA).

If you have so much "experience" with playing P2W games, it makes kinda sense that you actually don't understand how damaging it is.

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JakkerONAIR#4902 wrote:

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outlander19900#0213 wrote:

I dont think most people who play care about any of that. With the average player basically playing alone and not not actively engaging in economy. How many people do you actually think are traders in poe? I can assure you it's not many and if they were they wouldn't be using rmt as they would be making there own currency.

It doesn't matter what you are thinking when the reality looks different.
Most ppl engage with trade, that's why they play trade and not SSF.

And your argument "not many yadda yadda" is a baseless strawman.
Ppl who RMT do it no matter how much currency they can make without RMT.

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Apart from enabling rmt bots and companies people making rmt purchases have no effect on the economy as all the currency they buy was actually dropped by the game anyway. If it's obtained by hacking then it's bad for economy but game dropped currency changing hands is in no way responsible for any damage to the economy, that's all on ggg.

You don't understand what you are talking about.
Normally, when items get traded someone has to farm a resource to exchange it for something else.
If someone is able to buy a resource with resources outside of the game the in-game resources get removed from the economy without something getting back in.
And that's only a side issue.
The bigger problem is, that it takes time to gather in-game resources to trade with, while it takes only a few minutes to use outside resources (money) to trade with. That's a huge advantage generated by something outside of the game.

This affects everyone who is part of the economy, more or less depending on how much they engage with it. Low-value items lose their value faster, high-value items go up in price earlier, accessibility becomes more unfair and so on, the list is long.

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So basically when I made my 5 yo son an account and transfered a ton of gear and divs to him that he didn't earn himself so we can coop together is pay to win and affecting the economy?

That's not "Pay2Win", you just trade something to someone else. Do you need a definition of "P2W"?
Besides that your 5-year-old son shouldn't play the game in the first place, you don't trade in-game resources for outside gains. If your son would pay you money for the items, yes... that's RMT.

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Doesnt matter if people pay or don't pay. If it's legitimately earn through the game then who cares who ends up with it. Trust me is not even close to pay to win sounds like you dont have much experience actually playing pay to win games.

I don't trust someone who doesn't even understand the fundamentals of "Pay2Win", so no.

I already presented why RMTing is bad for everyone who is part of the economy and I could go on longer. But besides that, not only is it extremely harmful to the player base - it's against the "Terms of Use/Service" (EULA).

If you have so much "experience" with playing P2W games, it makes kinda sense that you actually don't understand how damaging it is.

You genuinly believe your highly intelligent and every opinion that comes out of you head is divine.

If in your head, your in a pve competition and get butt hurt because some people put in less work than you then that's a you problem. I dont even play anymore and don't rmt but I dont care if people do as the grind is unplayable for alot of people. Why would anything anyone else does effect my enjoyment. The grinding, sweaty no loot game that im supposed to be playing for fun does that.

I genuinly think your sweaty hardcore mentality is seriously affecting you thought process here. I can tell you that I'm on console and don't engage in economy mainly because trade site is the worst thing in the game for console. And I now occasionally play for fun when my son wants to kill some monsters. Fk your economy and your feelings of it being unfair. Play your own game for your own reasons. If someone who works alot doesn't have 500 hours or more to grind to get a fun build and wants to rmt it doesnt matter to me one bit. If ggg improved drops so people don't have to grind hundreds of hours then the problem will be solved.

This archaic trade system needs to go.

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outlander19900#0213 wrote:

You genuinly believe your highly intelligent and every opinion that comes out of you head is divine.

It doesn't matter what I believe because I can base my statements on facts and/or could get proven wrong should the facts not be true, and in this case, you can't.

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If in your head, your in a pve competition and get butt hurt because some people put in less work than you then that's a you problem. I dont even play anymore and don't rmt but I dont care if people do as the grind is unplayable for alot of people. Why would anything anyone else does effect my enjoyment. The grinding, sweaty no loot game that im supposed to be playing for fun does that.

That you PERSONALLY think that an issue is not an issue because it does not affect YOU is meaningless, period. And THAT is a YOU problem, not the other way around.

Like I said, understand the fundamental problem first before you comment on it.
Ppl can always have an advantage compared to someone else because they know more, they have higher skill, a better strategy, whatever, but these things are tied to the game itself and the person playing the game.
If you then have another factor that purely relies on the financial gains outside of the game to buy in-game advantages - you break the rules and hurt the community.

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I genuinly think your sweaty hardcore mentality is seriously affecting you thought process here. I can tell you that I'm on console and don't engage in economy mainly because trade site is the worst thing in the game for console. And I now occasionally play for fun when my son wants to kill some monsters. Fk your economy and your feelings of it being unfair. Play your own game for your own reasons. If someone who works alot doesn't have 500 hours or more to grind to get a fun build and wants to rmt it doesnt matter to me one bit. If ggg improved drops so people don't have to grind hundreds of hours then the problem will be solved.

Again, nobody cares how you PERSONALLY engage with the game if it's not breaking ToS, thus your own "enjoyment" is a non-argument if the topic is a general and overall issue.

You know, if I call you ignorant for "Fk your economy and your feelings of it being unfair." I probably get another ban for "antagonizing", but it's not a "feeling", it's factual truth.
On the opposite side... YOU actually feel it's not a problem because you base your perspective only on YOUR experience and not facts.

And no, even if everything would drop way more often, RMT would still exist and be an issue. What you've said is a conclusion fallacy.
Furthermore, if a game requires a certain amount of hours to get somewhere and you are unable to put these hours in - you accept it or choose another game, and don't break the "Terms of Service" and ruin everyone else's experience.

I dont see how rmt is even close to being the issue here.

I concede that if the majority issues that most people have or people who quit did have and the game was balanced then maybe rmt would show problems.

Maybe im wrong but im convinced that most people who play games do it for fun and not for economic trading. I mean fun is why people have always played games.

Maybe if I was a die hard trader I would have a problem with rmt but the incredibly large majority don't play games to play trading simulator so to be honest it will never be an issue for me. I would rather see trade disapear if it improves the enjoyment of the game.

And I really dont see how people paying real money on currency farmed and dropped by the game by bots or not is affecting anything. If its not sold then it's still in the game. And i don't get your statement before about think not returning into the economy has anything to do with anything rmt. Basically anyone who hates trade and doesn't use trade site which I believe was a hell of a lot of people, don't put anything back into economy. I reluctantly buy and never ever sell. Nothing i purchase is ever back on the market and anyone who doesn't play the game to trade this is true for.

And I still stick by my view that rmt is not p2w. Its a pve game that I, like most people play alone and don't care about economy. Full time traders who might feel like they are somehow at a disadvantage again rmt bots account is not something most people care about 1 bit. I want have some fun and enjoyment with my son recently. The price hike of your astramentis means nothing to me. Infact after 700 hours I would expect to get my own drop without trading lol

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outlander19900#0213 wrote:

I dont see how rmt is even close to being the issue here.

I concede that if the majority issues that most people have or people who quit did have and the game was balanced then maybe rmt would show problems.

That the game has other issues does not remove the RMT issue.

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Maybe im wrong but im convinced that most people who play games do it for fun and not for economic trading. I mean fun is why people have always played games.

Doesn't matter at all regarding the issue.
If you play SSF, sure, this problem literally does not affect you.
If you rarely trade, sure, this problem rarely affects you.
If it affects you but you don't mind, sure, that's your decision.
But we are talking about RMT in PoE2 and not in any other game and a huge part of the community likes to trade in PoE and even some only play "the economy".

Let's say "EVE Online" had an extreme PvP-related problem that's abused by some ppl while breaking the rules. Would you say "Hey, most ppl play games for fun, so your problem with PvP doesn't matter" while a big part of the player base plays the game because of PvP?! No. Because that's nonsensical.

The "Trade League" in PoE is by far the most popular for a reason, so it doesn't matter which other reason contributes to the "fun" if something so fundamental is broken.

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Maybe if I was a die hard trader I would have a problem with rmt but the incredibly large majority don't play games to play trading simulator so to be honest it will never be an issue for me. I would rather see trade disapear if it improves the enjoyment of the game.

Like I said, YOUR personal enjoyment does not dictate how things work for everyone else. If YOU don't care about trade and don't want to engage with it - sure, play SSF or something and mind your own business.

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And I really dont see how people paying real money on currency farmed and dropped by the game by bots or not is affecting anything. If its not sold then it's still in the game. And i don't get your statement before about think not returning into the economy has anything to do with anything rmt. Basically anyone who hates trade and doesn't use trade site which I believe was a hell of a lot of people, don't put anything back into economy. I reluctantly buy and never ever sell. Nothing i purchase is ever back on the market and anyone who doesn't play the game to trade this is true for.

Again and again. How you play the game literally doesn't matter when the issue is something that affects ppl who want to trade.
Furthermore, why are you so interested in arguing about something you firstly, don't engage with and secondly, don't have enough insight and understanding about!?
Ppl who "hate trade and don't use it" are not a part of the economy in the first place, so they don't need to "put back something into the economy" because they don't remove something from the economy to begin with.
Hell, it's not so hard to understand.

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And I still stick by my view that rmt is not p2w. Its a pve game that I, like most people play alone and don't care about economy. Full time traders who might feel like they are somehow at a disadvantage again rmt bots account is not something most people care about 1 bit. I want have some fun and enjoyment with my son recently. The price hike of your astramentis means nothing to me. Infact after 700 hours I would expect to get my own drop without trading lol

AGAIN, it LITERALLY doesn't matter that YOU as a single individual play the game by yourself and don't engage in the economy because the issue is ABOUT the economy and resulting problems for everyone who DOES engage in it.

Imagine "Warrior" has huge issues (not hard to imagine) and "Warriors" ask for improvement/changes, but you play a "Witch" and don't have these issues...
so you go "Nah, your issues are not real because I, a Witch who has no clue about Warrior, don't have these issues". It's illogical, nonsensical and other things I am not allowed to say.

While it's untrue that "most ppl don't care" about it, even if we would assume that most ppl don't care - it doesn't change the fact that the issue is still affecting them.
If RMTing affects the economy negatively (it does) - it affects everyone who is part of the economy, no matter if they care or not.