Can't progress anymore

"

AngryGekko#0233 wrote:

I'm in the very same situation, running t15 maps while not keeping self sufficient supply of new maps. Although my atlas is maxed out regarding map drops and i regal+vaal every map, there are just t1-t4 maps dropping from t15 bosses.

I really don't understand how this is possible to pass quality management. And if it is an INTENDED mechanic, it's simply the most stupid game design i ever experienced in my life. I'm waiting for any news on this, cause this demotivates so hard, i simply play other things, cause this feels like a dead end deleting fun for me entirely.

Yes it's intended, and if you learn how to use waystones properly you'll be swimming in them. I have multiple quad tabs full of waystones.

Always make them rare, aim for waystone drop chance, pack size, more packs, etc. Make sure your atlas tree is setup correctly for waystones, increased quant/rarity does NOT affect waystones (only nodes that specifically say waystone do).

Mob boss nodes will drop 3-5 from the boss alone if you run your maps correctly (ie high waystone drop chance). I aim for at least 300% to use on my boss maps.

Don't use T15 on nodes that have nothing you want to run, use a lower tier. I generally use T13-15.

If you have deli points, those low level ones that drop with influence are awesome for crap travel nodes (or failed nodes) because they get bonuses like 60% increase chance to drop tablet.

Use the towers, boost for waystone drop chance if you need more. Make sure you hit all towers in range before going after the juicy nodes and boss nodes.

"

leoviale#3633 wrote:

I’ve been running maps and mostly getting waystones of the same level, occasionally one level higher, but 95% of the time, they’re lower-level ones. My progression was steady until I hit level 11 maps, where the drops almost stopped. Then I died to random, unexpected causes (something this game seems to love doing) and now I’ve run out of waystones entirely.

I’m stuck and can’t progress anymore. This feels like horrible game design, and I don’t understand the logic behind it.

I even tried combining waystones in the map slots (there are four, so I thought maybe mixing levels would work), but no luck. Of course, GGG had to make it cryptic and frustrating instead of offering clear mechanics.

Can someone explain how we’re supposed to progress with maps?

See my other post, I gave a breakdown of how to sustain.

"

Toforto#2372 wrote:

"

LordSett#6649 wrote:

"

Toforto#2372 wrote:

because they are literally hard-stuck.

You are not literally hard-stuck, though. You can drop tier 1 Waystones in Act 3 cruel, and go on from there.

As if anyone is gonna go do that lmao

Having to grind in the campaign is a sign that the atlas system itself is bad, a player should never have to backtrack and go do previous content in order to progress in endgame.

Backtracking has always been a feature in challenging games, I really don't know what you're talking about.

Of course it will be very rare for you to backtrack into Acts. But oh boy indeed if you need to backtrack from T11 to Acts you did something very wrong, like idk, trashing all waystones under T8 and then dying in all T8+

"

LordSett#6649 wrote:

Backtracking has always been a feature in challenging games, I really don't know what you're talking about.

Of course it will be very rare for you to backtrack into Acts. But oh boy indeed if you need to backtrack from T11 to Acts you did something very wrong, like idk, trashing all waystones under T8 and then dying in all T8+

It isn't "challenging". It's bad game design. Maybe games from 3 decades ago were like that lol but this kind of design is actually hilariously bad in the current year. Ain't no way I'm ever doing a lower tier waystone, if the drops are so bad that I can't sustain them by just playing the game and I am unable to move to higher tier ones then I'll just uninstall and go play an actually fun game that allows the player to progress instead of making them softlock just to inflate playtime and engagement metrics. You know, the kind of stuff Blizzard does when they timegate content in WoW for example. It's a cheap and horrible way to extend a game's playtime artificially. It's just bad lol

"

Toforto#2372 wrote:

It absolutely is intentional, you can drop t1 maps inside of t16 maps in PoE 1 too. Except in that game there's a way to at least block all maps under t16 from dropping once you fully progress your atlas so then you only ever see t16s dropping.

In PoE 2 however there is no such system, so you'll always be dropping lower-tier waystones in high-level areas. And that just makes absolutely no sense, its just bad design.

I was a PoE1 veteran about 3 years ago, and map drops even in PoE1 felt awkward, clunky and i had severe difficulties in self sustainment, too. But back then, EVERY little thing in PoE1 felt like improvised gameplay and not like a finished product. Now with PoE2, i thought GGG would have learned from their PoE1 confusing and overcomplicated patchwork design and would have adressed the issues demotivating players with a clean PoE2. It's kinda disturbing how many flaws have been re-imported to PoE2. And not keeping up map sustain while atlas is maxed out and towers are fully spiced, this simply makes no sense: it's utterly bad game design, as you said.

There are so many flaws with the game right now, i quit playing PoE2, cause i miss having fun.

"

AngryGekko#0233 wrote:

"

Toforto#2372 wrote:

It absolutely is intentional, you can drop t1 maps inside of t16 maps in PoE 1 too. Except in that game there's a way to at least block all maps under t16 from dropping once you fully progress your atlas so then you only ever see t16s dropping.

In PoE 2 however there is no such system, so you'll always be dropping lower-tier waystones in high-level areas. And that just makes absolutely no sense, its just bad design.

I was a PoE1 veteran about 3 years ago, and map drops even in PoE1 felt awkward, clunky and i had severe difficulties in self sustainment, too. But back then, EVERY little thing in PoE1 felt like improvised gameplay and not like a finished product. Now with PoE2, i thought GGG would have learned from their PoE1 confusing and overcomplicated patchwork design and would have adressed the issues demotivating players with a clean PoE2. It's kinda disturbing how many flaws have been re-imported to PoE2. And not keeping up map sustain while atlas is maxed out and towers are fully spiced, this simply makes no sense: it's utterly bad game design, as you said.

There are so many flaws with the game right now, i quit playing PoE2, cause i miss having fun.

Yeah they seem to have un-learned every lesson they should already know from making PoE 1 leagues for years. All the bad design choices, lack of qol and so on in PoE 2 shows that they were just making a pretty-looking campaign for 6 years with no actual substance in the game, systems aren't fleshed-out or good at all. And UI is also horrible in some places. This game was far from ready for an Early Access launch lol

What's even more sad is that this sustain issue could be fixed with 1 simple change: make waystones drop only at the level of the zone you're in. So it would be impossible to drop anything less than t10 in a t10 map. Boost the droprates a lot, remove all the waystone drop atlas nodes and make the atlas tree actually interesting like in PoE 1 and there you go endgame waystone progression and sustain is fixed while also not making players spend like half their skill points on waystone drop chance nodes.

It gets better once you have +2 to boss levels and get the waystone drop chance. then doing a T15 map with high chance for waystones usually drops 2-3 T15s, and it's enough to sustain.

The problem is, before then, you are literally running reduced XP maps making no prog or buying the next tier on trade so you can prog.

"

Toforto#2372 wrote:

What's even more sad is that this sustain issue could be fixed with 1 simple change: make waystones drop only at the level of the zone you're in. So it would be impossible to drop anything less than t10 in a t10 map. Boost the droprates a lot, remove all the waystone drop atlas nodes and make the atlas tree actually interesting like in PoE 1 and there you go endgame waystone progression and sustain is fixed while also not making players spend like half their skill points on waystone drop chance nodes.

So your "simple" solution is to make the system.....way worse?

"make waystones drop only at the level of the zone you're in": what does this accomplish, if you give it even the slightest bit of thought? It bricks your entire progress in the blink of an eye. Finding lower tier maps/waystones is crucial to the game. This is an incredibly stupid idea on its own. It also assumes a complete zero percent failure rate which is unlikely.

You critically ignore all the things needed to make such an idea work: all lower tier maps need to be freely accessible at all times, because the second you challenge above your station you are suddenly completely and utterly locked out of the entire endgame otherwise. This devalues every single map below the maximum tier for everyone. At that point, just remove maps entirely and implement a torment-like system. Secondly, you would need to also limit the upper tier that could drop to only 1 tier higher, because if its any larger than that at ANY time.....you risk locking a player completely out of the endgame completely by accident because they can't complete the harder map, nor can they EVER find a lower tier map.

The real "simple" solution that makes sense is to just guarantee 1 map within 1 tier of the map you are clearing. Everything else stays exactly the same. That way, it isn't just "guaranteed" that you 100% get better and better maps, but you ALSO have an incredibly high chance of progressing forward. While not opening up the entire endgame to ridiculous lockouts.

"

arknath#4740 wrote:

Step one: Use T1 maps on travel nodes and non-high tier stones on towers. Remove bad nodes in tower range until you have ~10 maps remaining within range.Preferably maps with 3+ content icons and or boss.

Step 2: Use tablets to influence the 10 remaining maps. If you can get multiple towers in range of each other even better. Make sure you roll the tablets

Step 3: Pick atlas passives that gives higher tier of waystones.

Step 4: Only use your highest tier waystone on maps with bosses since bosses often drop + tier waystones. Make sure you roll these maps rare and if very high tier corrupt. Often you get 200% waystones dropped on those which means boss can drop 3 or more high tier waystones.

Step 5. Use your second and third highest waystones on nodes that have 3+ content icons preferably influenced by towers.

You will never run out of waystones. You will have so many you can sell them to others or sell them for gold if SSF

+1 Thanks.

They need to double it or add a Kirac like system.