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You're overestimating the effect the exp-loss has on your and the other "pros" playstyles. Which is nothing.
Meanwhile for the vast majority of players, all it teaches you is to avoid most of the games content, or straight up quit the game once they reach late maps.
Last edited by mrfox123#7595 on Jan 1, 2025, 2:48:54 AM
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Posted bymrfox123#7595on Jan 1, 2025, 2:48:25 AM
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No. Whiners need to quit or learn to play. Design resources should not be wasted on people who want the game to be boring. We need swords, axes, and new acts. Not boring gameplay.
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Posted byXerxal85#2968on Jan 1, 2025, 2:53:43 AM
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You're overestimating the effect the exp-loss has on your and the other "pros" playstyles. Which is nothing.
Meanwhile for the vast majority of players, all it teaches you is to avoid most of the games content, or straight up quit the game once they reach late maps.
This reply (above) to this post (below) is why you get responses like the ones arandan put on the first page.
We've had this debate, thousands of times, and no matter how well articulated and reasoned of an explanation players like Platinum take their time to spell out in extremely small words that are impossible to misunderstand, it always ends in the exact same way: someone just refusing to acknowledge that a world exists outside of their own personal experience. "I disagree so the problem isn't real." Posters like MrFox genuinely aren't able to comprehend the fact that yes, literally every single thing they think has been carefully considered in the past, and their opinion has been discarded. You are not suggesting anything new, you are suggesting something which has been determined to not be correct.
And while I think arandan probably should have phrased things differently, it's hard not to empathize with how annoying it is to constantly see the exact same bad faith arguments from casuals and tourists who would absolutely ruin every single game they played if their not-at-all-thought-through ideas were taken seriously.
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People still dont understand that its not about catering to casuals or hardcore players with this simple design decision.
This whole game is designed about risk vs reward, period. this will never change because its a core thing about everything in it and the game is balanced around it. Every system, every mechanic is about to overcome harder and harder getting walls in order to progress and being rewarded for it. thats the nature of the game. and with this design, the loot is also balanced.
right now player power by level is somewhat balanced (in poe1 better, in poe2 worse atm, will change). people can do lvl 100, but its a grind and kinda hard to achieve. build guides are mostly capped around 90 to 94 in order to fit that. and player power in ggg's eyes is balanced in mind players will mostly reach that point of lvl 90. if you delete the wall to lvl 100, the game will be balanced around players getting to 100. that means, player power would be nerfed baseline for everybody to meet that new baseline of player level.
same as bosses or mechanics. they stated clearly as an example, they can do make bosses more rewarding, because they are rare, hard, and not every map has a boss. if there was a boss on every single map instead of 1/4 of maps, they would simple drop only 1/4 of the loot. if you could redo bosses or mechanics as often as you want in order to "not fail" them, they would simply be nerfed massively in rewards in order to balance in that failure isnt possible anymore. in return for taking out the risk, you would again have massive nerfs in rewards.
so tell me, who would love to play a auto win grinding game without good rewards to do? who would want to achieve lvl 100 if its meaningless because everyone and his mom is also lvl 100? who would love to fight rly hard and challenging bosses as many times as you want in a row without failing to get some nerfed loot?
if you take out the grind and the risk, you take out the rewards. and nobody wants an unrewarding game.
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You're overestimating the effect the exp-loss has on your and the other "pros" playstyles. Which is nothing.
Meanwhile for the vast majority of players, all it teaches you is to avoid most of the games content, or straight up quit the game once they reach late maps.
NO IT DOESN'T. I also used to be a noob and I remember vividly how I used to approach this 'problem'.
You set a level you need to reach in order for your build to work optimally then you go achieve that and you're fucking done. FOR MOST PEOPLE THIS WILL BE LEVEL NINETY, because they are following a guide.
OKAY PAL?
There is NO NEED for them to gain any further levels, it is something you have to actively strive and plan for AND YES PUT IN THE EFFORT FOR. Be it buying a carry, building a defensive character or running low danger content, I DO NOT CARE how you do it, it NEEDS to require some EFFORT.
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Posted byarandan#3174on Jan 1, 2025, 2:57:44 AM
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You're overestimating the effect the exp-loss has on your and the other "pros" playstyles. Which is nothing.
Meanwhile for the vast majority of players, all it teaches you is to avoid most of the games content, or straight up quit the game once they reach late maps.
This reply (above) to this post (below) is why you get responses like the ones arandan put on the first page.
We've had this debate, thousands of times, and no matter how well articulated and reasoned of an explanation players like Platinum take their time to spell out in extremely small words that are impossible to misunderstand, it always ends in the exact same way: someone just refusing to acknowledge that a world exists outside of their own personal experience. "I disagree so the problem isn't real." Posters like MrFox genuinely aren't able to comprehend the fact that yes, literally every single thing they think has been carefully considered in the past, and their opinion has been discarded. You are not suggesting anything new, you are suggesting something which has been determined to not be correct.
And while I think arandan probably should have phrased things differently, it's hard not to empathize with how annoying it is to constantly see the exact same bad faith arguments from casuals and tourists who would absolutely ruin every single game they played if their not-at-all-thought-through ideas were taken seriously.
Doesn't matter how much one might write when their content and motives are lacking.
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You're overestimating the effect the exp-loss has on your and the other "pros" playstyles. Which is nothing.
Meanwhile for the vast majority of players, all it teaches you is to avoid most of the games content, or straight up quit the game once they reach late maps.
NO IT DOESN'T. I also used to be a noob and I remember vividly how I used to approach this 'problem'.
You set a level you need to reach in order for your build to work optimally then you go achieve that and you're fucking done. FOR MOST PEOPLE THIS WILL BE LEVEL NINETY, because they are following a guide.
OKAY PAL?
There is NO NEED for them to gain any further levels, it is something you have to actively strive and plan for AND YES PUT IN THE EFFORT FOR. Be it buying a carry, building a defensive character or running low danger content, I DO NOT CARE how you do it, it NEEDS to require some EFFORT.
All you said here is that the last 10 levels shouldn't even exist.
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Posted bymrfox123#7595on Jan 1, 2025, 3:08:53 AM
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People still dont understand that its not about catering to casuals or hardcore players with this simple design decision.
This whole game is designed about risk vs reward, period. this will never change because its a core thing about everything in it and the game is balanced around it. Every system, every mechanic is about to overcome harder and harder getting walls in order to progress and being rewarded for it. thats the nature of the game. and with this design, the loot is also balanced.
right now player power by level is somewhat balanced (in poe1 better, in poe2 worse atm, will change). people can do lvl 100, but its a grind and kinda hard to achieve. build guides are mostly capped around 90 to 94 in order to fit that. and player power in ggg's eyes is balanced in mind players will mostly reach that point of lvl 90. if you delete the wall to lvl 100, the game will be balanced around players getting to 100. that means, player power would be nerfed baseline for everybody to meet that new baseline of player level.
same as bosses or mechanics. they stated clearly as an example, they can do make bosses more rewarding, because they are rare, hard, and not every map has a boss. if there was a boss on every single map instead of 1/4 of maps, they would simple drop only 1/4 of the loot. if you could redo bosses or mechanics as often as you want in order to "not fail" them, they would simply be nerfed massively in rewards in order to balance in that failure isnt possible anymore. in return for taking out the risk, you would again have massive nerfs in rewards.
so tell me, who would love to play a auto win grinding game without good rewards to do? who would want to achieve lvl 100 if its meaningless because everyone and his mom is also lvl 100? who would love to fight rly hard and challenging bosses as many times as you want in a row without failing to get some nerfed loot?
if you take out the grind and the risk, you take out the rewards. and nobody wants an unrewarding game.
Better ways to add risk and reward. You know, like actual challenges to over-come.
Don't need to be removing XP.
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NO IT DOESN'T. I also used to be a noob and I remember vividly how I used to approach this 'problem'.
That's great. Not everyone has the same mind as you. They play differently, they think differently. For you, you don't think it's a problem. Others do.
Both are correct :)
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You set a level you need to reach in order for your build to work optimally then you go achieve that and you're fucking done. FOR MOST PEOPLE THIS WILL BE LEVEL NINETY, because they are following a guide.
Not how everyone thinks unfortunately. Some people just like being max level in video games. It has nothing to do with when the build is finished. Regardless if it's necessary or not.
You might not value level 100 the same way others don't, doesn't mean that they're incorrect for wanting to be level 100.
OKAY PAL?
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There is NO NEED for them to gain any further levels, it is something you have to actively strive and plan for
Of course, you don't see a need, because you're only viewing this from your own perspective.
You aren't putting in the effort to understand that other people don't play the game how you do, and expect different things from the game.
Being able to hit level 100 within a reasonable time-frame is a priority for many people. They enjoy getting to max level. Having a mechanic like XP loss on death, makes this a frustrating, and unfun experience for many players. And there are better mechanics that could be added that replace XP loss on death. That still offer great challenge to players. Without unnecessary frustration and time padding in the game!
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AND YES PUT IN THE EFFORT FOR.
I agree. Except you're not realizing, that a significant amount of 'effort', aka time. Is already required to hit level 100. For a casual player you could be looking at 200 hours.
I think many people feel that's already a lot of 'effort' required, and see no value in a mechanic that constantly adds more time to that.
200 hours is a very long time for someone to play a game. Why do you feel it needs to have more time added to it? You even said it yourself. You don't need level 100. So why does it need to be so punishing to get to it?
Last edited by Akedomo#3573 on Jan 1, 2025, 3:31:59 AM
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Posted byAkedomo#3573on Jan 1, 2025, 3:20:58 AM
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All you said here is that the last 10 levels shouldn't even exist.
I spelled out the function of those last 10 levels to you verbatim, you are just too thick to grasp it. They are there as something TO AIM FOR.
Not something that is automatically handed out to everyone regardless of the amount of effort they put in.
Last edited by arandan#3174 on Jan 1, 2025, 3:25:12 AM
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Posted byarandan#3174on Jan 1, 2025, 3:23:57 AM
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Xp loss is good for the game. It makes it exciting and thrilling and forces you to learn to play in a way that you don’t die and think strategically about risks. If you want to stay in casual mode, the campaign is casual mode: all you have to do is stay there and say that’s your endgame, or make a new character.
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Posted byXerxal85#2968on Jan 1, 2025, 3:42:11 AM
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I would play softcore if it was an option. When I lose 10% exp on 90+ level in PoE(1 or 2) something dies inside of me.
That's...unfortunate. Tying a part of your well-being to a little bar at the bottom of the screen of a game.
Instead of trying to change an entire company to suit your desires, maybe realize that if you've hit level 90, you're already further than a vast majority of players.
You want softcore mode so you can absolutely be the god-king of casuals, not to fit in with them. If you got to 90 on standard, you don't need softcore. Your character is at worst mostly complete, at best, actually complete.
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Posted byRedthorne82#3177on Jan 1, 2025, 3:56:53 AM
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OH I have a lot of arguments, I'm just tired of repeating them to every single sycophant who wants to turn this franchise into mush, like they have done with every single fucking previous one.
If you want easy games and instant gratification, there are many games for out of there, go fucking play those instead of trying to ruin another one with your whining.
You have no arguments.
If ppl come and suggest to remove the XP loss ppl like you dont want it and come with arguments like "it is an achievment" or some other stuff into that direction.
If ppl then suggest to turn this into a seperate mode you also dont want it and dont bring any argument besides "community seperation".
The reality however is fear. Its fear that noone cares about the high level character "achievment". And its fear that the silent majority would pick the mode without the loss and you end up with a smaller player market so you get trouble setting up your meta builds.
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Posted byXebov#4972on Jan 1, 2025, 4:07:12 AM
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