10% exp loss on lvl 95 is 25mln exp

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Cequel1129#6191 wrote:

I always hated losing xp in poe 1 but dealt with it because it was basically only penalty for dying. Granted you could lose map but you had 6 tries. Now death is just way over the top punishing. Aside from xp loss, when you pushing maps you loss so much time invested. You map to get to towers, then juice x amount of maps based on tower, then have to get to said maps that have the content you are farming. A death on one of these maps that have a boss, league mechanic, +1 to map just is so disheartening and then to top it all off you may need to run that same spot to advance atlas with 0 shit on map. Its a giant slap in the face that you just failed map. And on top of that loss if game freezes lately im getting rolled back and lose map and whatever i looted on map. Just give us our portals back. And i doubt anyone getting lvl 100 at moment unless they change how much xp you get mapping.

I mean, if you get a decent tower setup you have like 50 maps, losing 1-2 isn't that big of a deal in terms of lost investment. IDK, also by the time you are doing that you should have a grip on how to play your character, if you don't because you blindly followed a guide without understanding it or you have no sense of danger - guess you will die some more until you do learn

Im playing deadeye with 2400 hp 76 evade with acrobatics and rez capped, it still easy to get 1 tapped. And dying in a map sucks balls, too many penatlies for dying.

try ghostshroud instead of acrobatics. Acrobatics is just rolling on the slot machine every time you get hit. Why would you want that as your main defensive layer. Every time you roll 1-15 on a D100 you are dead.

+1

I'm playing SSF and a non-meta build, self made (which is also broken by mechanics, here's hoping for a patch in the New Year). We're talking craft 19 body armor and get thorns on them all just to get 1 upgrade. None of this "spend 1 div to get BiS uniques and all gear triple resist / HP" stuff.

So, actually playing an aRPG, not a "buy best stuff off farmers" "aRPG".

Level 85 was my plateau when XP loss, 1 shots and general wall of XP just made me quit the grind. The maps weren't challenging: it is literally either the screen clears *or* 1 second 1 shot and instant death.

I've not used a HP flask in 30 levels, that's how boring the actual game play is. Either I'm 100% immune or 1 shot. No inbetween. This is a fundamental failure of the design.

The gameplay itself hasn't changed since lvl 70. Exactly the same rotation, exactly the same build type, maybe a few tweaks... and one or two upgrades. But it's identical from the moment I started T1 to T15.


Could I get to 90? Maybe. Would I be having any fun doing it?

Probably not.

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Nyon#6673 wrote:

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fnsonin#2863 wrote:

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Nyon#6673 wrote:

You have to take into consideration that there is no content in the game that requires you to be higher then lvl 95.

So I dont think its as big of a deal as you make it out to be.

I agree that there are some mechanics that needs tuning that feels bad to die to.
But I think its better to give them time to tune those mechanics then removing the exp loss on death

In POE1 T16 maps were 1% of level 100 progress. Running 10 T16 POE1 maps takes less time than running the first Trial of Sekhama to get your ascendancy. Running 10 maps in POE2 is at least 2 hours if not more. The experiences feel completely different because they objectively are. Experience loss on death is a bad time disrespecting mechanic I could tolerate in my 20s. In my 50s, I have better things to do than be one shot and have to waste time getting back to where I was when I died. Fromsoft does this mechanic absolutely correctly, GGG should take a hint.

Dont really see what the comparison to poe1 maps or trials has to do with anything.
My point remains, there is no content which requires you to hit 100.
Exp loss on death is a good mechanic to discourage glass cannon builds with no defense and to reward you for playing for a long while with few deaths.

I dont really see any good argument for removing it. Your only argument is that it annoys you, if your not having fun then maybe this isnt the game for you. There are plenty of players who enjoy the difficulty.

Removing it would just discourage good players and encourage a playstyle similar to corpse rushing bosses or smashing your head on the keyboard and eventually hitting lvl 100 despite having 20k deaths, instead of actually being incentivised to improving

This mentality of telling people to leave the game isn't for them is going to be why this game ends up with no population at all.

Can't win an argument, just say the game isn't for the other person and defend bad mechanics till we fade into obscurity again.

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outlander19900#0213 wrote:

To those saying that the souls like argue won't and can't exist.

It almost did, the acts and bosses are amazing they almost nailed it. Elden ring is my favourite game of all time and I deeply enjoyed this game and thought it was game changing until the end game.

As a souls player I can tell you that this end game is nothing like elden ring or souls. This is a monstrosity all on its own. I dont know wtf these mechanics are but its not souls lol

Ding Ding Ding we have a winner:

I have played over 300 hours of Elden Ring on a console and have not finished the game. That is ok. I am 51 and have a demanding job. I never felt the punishment for death in Elden Ring was that bad. For two reasons:

1. You can go get your Runes and retreat except for bosses.
2. You as a player can manage your risk by using up all of your runes before going into a boss fight.

I quickly learned to manage access to the boss while on low runes to minimize loss. Elden Ring is not an ARPG it is a rhythm game where attacks are telegraphed and there is no screen clutter.

POE1 and POE2 are twitchy ARPGs with so much screen clutter it can blind you. This can be mitigated with careful class and build/skill selection, but at T16 in POE1 most boss fights are so frenzied and cluttered you have to be able to survive at least a single if not two boss hits. In POE1 maps are so fast that the experience loss does not feel that bad.

The difference is that POE2 maps are such a shit-fest right now with so many twitchy one-shot mechanics and not enough tools to build adequate defenses that the experience loss along with the map and keystone loss is so punishing that it is no longer fun to play. Especially as lower maps are so unrewarding from a player power progression point of view.

POE1 has at most 300-400K active players per league with a dedicated base of maybe 50K. The POE2 open access had over a million and has 400-500K active players each weekend. If GGG wants to keep that player base, they better listen to what people are saying. The game is too punishing with too many one-shot mechanics to have a death result in: exp loss, map loss, progression loss, and zero ability to increase player power or progression by replaying lower tier content.

I got my early access key for free, because I spend quite a bit of money on this game. If the POE2 endgame stays the way it is at launch, then it is not the game for me and I have no problem with that. However, if GGG and Tencent want to have POE2 be a much bigger game than POE1; they will fix this disaster of an end game as soon a possible. If they do not because of "The Vision", then they will have to be content with POE1 numbers for POE2 and budget around that. Something tells me that is not what GGG and Tencent want from POE2.

Either way we will find out in the following months.

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GODOFWARSANCHEZ#4574 wrote:

Which is around 2-3 hours of playtime on endgame mapping. You will only get around a million from 79 map, and about 2-3 million from 82 map if doing full clear (that takes time).

People complaining about loss of loot, loss of map, loss of portals, this is a much bigger loss by far. This game is prone to give you sudden death, by random explosions, random mobs and other stuff.

XP loss ensures a competitive build market.

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Nyon#6673 wrote:

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fnsonin#2863 wrote:

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Nyon#6673 wrote:

You have to take into consideration that there is no content in the game that requires you to be higher then lvl 95.

So I dont think its as big of a deal as you make it out to be.

I agree that there are some mechanics that needs tuning that feels bad to die to.
But I think its better to give them time to tune those mechanics then removing the exp loss on death

In POE1 T16 maps were 1% of level 100 progress. Running 10 T16 POE1 maps takes less time than running the first Trial of Sekhama to get your ascendancy. Running 10 maps in POE2 is at least 2 hours if not more. The experiences feel completely different because they objectively are. Experience loss on death is a bad time disrespecting mechanic I could tolerate in my 20s. In my 50s, I have better things to do than be one shot and have to waste time getting back to where I was when I died. Fromsoft does this mechanic absolutely correctly, GGG should take a hint.

Dont really see what the comparison to poe1 maps or trials has to do with anything.
My point remains, there is no content which requires you to hit 100.
Exp loss on death is a good mechanic to discourage glass cannon builds with no defense and to reward you for playing for a long while with few deaths.

I dont really see any good argument for removing it. Your only argument is that it annoys you, if your not having fun then maybe this isnt the game for you. There are plenty of players who enjoy the difficulty.

Removing it would just discourage good players and encourage a playstyle similar to corpse rushing bosses or smashing your head on the keyboard and eventually hitting lvl 100 despite having 20k deaths, instead of actually being incentivised to improving

It has to do with the relative difference in XP per hour of POE1 versus POE2. It takes 10x longer to gain experience in POE2 than in POE1. Therefore in POE1 the experience loss for death is tolerable. In POE2 it is not.

This is compounded by the loss of portals and loot and overall progression in POE2. This makes the punishment for death in POE2 unacceptable for the vast majority of even POE1 players let alone players coming from D4, Last Epoch, or any other ARPG made in the last decade.

In Dark Souls/Elden Ring death is nowhere near as punishing and you can salvage your runes after every death. Therefore if you need to learn the fight to progress, you can conceivably not lose any "experience" or progression if you beat the boss. POE2 has ZERO ability to do this on a map. Therefore POE2 is WAY MORE punishing than any Fromsoft game ever made.

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Toforto#2372 wrote:

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Akedomo#3573 wrote:

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Nyon#6673 wrote:

remove essential things like exp loss on death

What about it, is essential? Essential to what?

Seems to me most players dont like it. Very few enjoy it. Not seeing the value here.

People that defend these senselessly cruel on-death punishment mechanics just get some weird ego boost every time they do it. And their only excuse for these mechanics is "oh to discourage you from playing in a certain way". How is this a good thing exactly? Trying to tell players how to play a game will never go well lol, and this guy defending exp penalty conveniently ignored the fact that the meta right now is quite literally glass cannons, the penalty for dying is enforcing and encouraging the exact builds he doesn't want in the game. It's hilarious.

Probably like 95% of the people defending all these bad game design decisions are still in campaign, and have no clue just how much it's gonna suck for them when or if they ever get to maps.

That's the funny thing. Kripps one of the most hardcore and best poe players talked about all the extremely punishing stuff a week after release. Several other streamers (not Asmongold the entertainer kind but the serious kind) talked about them. You have multiple players on the top 1000 ladder talk about them here on the forums. You have lots of Souls players like me talk about them. In Elden Ring I play exclusively melee and I am even more aggressive than the bosses, I stay in close range and abuse bosses without getting hit to produce some really cinematic epic boss fight clips. But here in poe2, I won't touch melee and endgame really isn't fun at all. Last night a random 'minion' from a rare hidden in a hut (WHY the hell can't we see the mobs in huts/pavillions etc. until we enter them? they can see us across the screen) that I can't even see jumped out of nowhere Thor style and one shot me. Yeah at this rate I'll be back to making Elden Ring clips pretty soon, since the entire dev team has been on vacation since 0.10e patch on 19th Dec so we're stuck with this excuse of an endgame for at least another week.

Getting your earned XP deleted is a giant slap in the face of the player. its unacceptable forces you to feel that you are wasting your time. the most valuable thing a person has. gone.

REMOVE IT NOW