An interview you should watch with GGG

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KingAlamar#4071 wrote:

I understand the arguements that some others are making but I don't agree with the conclusions that they are coming to.

To me, if you allow a mostly unlimited but high friction trading system similar to what we have now, it's an annoyance to the players that will put up with the friction, it's an annoyance to the sellers, and it's a BARRIER to those players that just want to progress but don't want to put up with needless hassle.

To me the above is a lose, lose, lose situation. I think even the people that want to find their own stuff lose because the game is ALREADY balanced around unlimited trading -- adding in friction just adds "net losses" to the overall picture.


To me, from an economic perspective, adding friction to a market does two things .. it makes both buyers and sellers not want to engage as much. This along with human nature tends to lead to market distortions that are less efficient for everyone.

100%

As I mentioned earlier I really only see a couple of ways to maximize enjoyment and that is to go to one or more extremes:

1. Unlimited & frictionless trade. The game is balanced around trade but has a thriving "crafting" system [and "finding" system] that allows for each player to be productive and to be able to economically engage.

2. No trading at all and the introduction of "Smart Loot ++" so that gear that drops will have a VERY STRONG tendency to be beneficial to your "class". The crafting system also should be powerful enough to serve the needs of those players that are not running a build stereotypical of their class so-to-speak.

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bowfer8660#2094 wrote:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RskRFwgoQ5g

for the question about trade and instant buy-out

here is a time samped one https://youtu.be/RskRFwgoQ5g?t=6838

Yeah yeah, the stupid trade manifesto is why I have not bought a supporter pack in 14 years. Nothing but stupidity, and serendipitously fumbling their way into success. I often think it would have been better if Kripp let this game die in the first few leagues rather than telling them how to succeed. Maybe they would take the hint and notice that Kripp eventually went full SSF and ruthless.

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bowfer8660#2094 wrote:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RskRFwgoQ5g

for the question about trade and instant buy-out

here is a time samped one https://youtu.be/RskRFwgoQ5g?t=6838

And they delivered...

https://www.poewiki.net/wiki/Path_of_Exile:_Settlers_of_Kalguur

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maquino85#7657 wrote:

That’s all great, except for the fact that earning an orb wage is exactly what we have right now. So you’re either fixing that by not creating a shit tier trade experience to use your orbs or fixing the other side of the equation and making it reasonable to play without trade. Pretending that poe1 and 2 are not designed about earning orb wages is a deep and staggering level of denial and self delusion

POE's no where near any sort of goldilocks zone for me in any mode, that doesn't change the cause and effect of how trade balance effects the game. It just means we're both bound to be at least unsatisfied about where the balance currently is.

IMHO Trade needs to be HARDER to get done currently with improvement to drop rates, or non-trading experience of the game should probably get something like Last Epochs guild system. AKA tune SSF for a good experience of playing instead of just defaulting to stupid trade drop rates.

I never understood why people continue to cling to these statements and things from 7+ years ago. The game was much much smaller back then, and GGG themselves have already drastically moved away from nearly everything that CW had written back in that time period. It's the same with SSF: getting into an argument in other threads without other people realizing that plans from 7+ years ago.....can and DO change. Mostly through feedback. These same people just straight up idolize and put these documents and statements on a pedestal, while ignoring the world of changes that has already occurred in direct contrast to them.

The game has long since evolved beyond 2017. The developer choices and patterns have changed, and continue to change. But that one snapshot in history is the end-all, be-all, 100% correct method? Even GGG didn't stick that!

GGG is not infallible. Quite the opposite. They make more errors and missteps than many other gaming companies, and regularly walk them back or change them.

Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaand another "WE WANT UNLIMITED INSTANT FREE TRADE FOREVER FOR EVERYTHING" thread asking for market ultrahypersaturation and for every drop in the entire game to be rendered meaningless save for the pinnacle stuff that will then cost dozens of mirrors.

The equation is simple - if every single player in the entire game can sell literally every single item they generate, freely and without cost, restriction, or limit? Items are utterly worthless. The game's loot system is distorted beyond all measure because you are getting access to every drop in the entirety of Path of Exile all at once.

And you all somehow expect this to not cause any issues whatsoever?

Reality's over here, folks. Come join the rest of us in it, please.

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sonik11#6442 wrote:

"

bowfer8660#2094 wrote:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RskRFwgoQ5g

for the question about trade and instant buy-out

here is a time samped one https://youtu.be/RskRFwgoQ5g?t=6838

The entire premise of Johnathans is false.

There does not *have* to be a limit on trading. There does not *have* to be inconvenience to trading.

It's just this belief that you have to get kicked in the balls everytime you find a positive thing that's so incredibly asinine by GGG.

Exactly. Ask Johnatan how hsi business woudl work if each MTX bought or EA bougth he had to open an email, log in, go to his stash and move an MTX item to us. I dare to say.. would he even KEEP his company?

I'm pretty ok with whatever they end up doing. But let me tell you I single handedly quadrupled or more the price of every single end game item on my WoW server back in the day, especially when they released the AH mobile app. I would never have been able to do that in the current PoE system. Even if I don't do something like that, many people will. To me it tracks perfectly with Jonathan's point that the rarest items will skyrocket exponentially beyond where they already are.

Just input. If they make an AH I'll appreciate aspects of it for sure, but it will definitely impact the economy in a way I doubt most will consider positive.

Maaaybe if there's a hefty enough gold cost to mitigate that. But even then, it's not like it's that hard to grind out a rather significant chunk of gold. Might be less level 10 hideout warriors, they'll just be level 90. It's not like all hideout warriors dislike playing the game.

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1453R#7804 wrote:

Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaand another "WE WANT UNLIMITED INSTANT FREE TRADE FOREVER FOR EVERYTHING" thread asking for market ultrahypersaturation and for every drop in the entire game to be rendered meaningless save for the pinnacle stuff that will then cost dozens of mirrors.

The equation is simple - if every single player in the entire game can sell literally every single item they generate, freely and without cost, restriction, or limit? Items are utterly worthless. The game's loot system is distorted beyond all measure because you are getting access to every drop in the entirety of Path of Exile all at once.

And you all somehow expect this to not cause any issues whatsoever?

Reality's over here, folks. Come join the rest of us in it, please.

Exactly the opposite.. history in mankind shows that easier trade.. reduces average prices since scarcity is reduced the easier it is for products to reach where they are needed.

Instant trade woudl REDUCE the price of items.