PoE 1 was intentionally left alive, exactly so PoE 2 can be different. So what is the problem?

I personally like a few ARPG games like D2, Poe1, and played these for a long period of time. In addition, I can play D4 (although I don’t like it) on PS5 with a controller – this seems ok but its not the same feeling I have when a POE1 season starts. Eventually this is how I will play POE2; casually, once in a few weeks on a controller, but not hours or months or years long if it doesn’t change fundamentally.
I can understand (but don’t like) some of the design choices for POE2. Funny as it is - I fever towards a new season of POE1 (preferably with an updated POE2 graphic as formerly anticipated) but not for the second part in its current form. I don’t want to login. I played only a couple days on PC. I was top 300 of HC SSF ladder - which is easy to reach with a hour here and there; and I notice today, that I wanted to end it – so I killed myself.
I understand that I’m maybe not the target group here. Thus, I’ll move on. Easy as it is. I didn’t pay much for POE but I was there when the game was established, and I revisited it from beginning to the end (while I may not have access to some of the accounts due to trash data – everyone makes mistakes in young years) – overall maybe 700$ - tell me GGG.
Its now more like a mixture between Dark souls (roll, roll,..), Diablo 2, tuned down POE (yikes.), and Diablo 4 but without its open world. I could imagine there is a good spot for it as it addresses so many target groups.
Enjoy.

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Rabarbar_Lichy#7553 wrote:

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chipninja#4276 wrote:

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Rabarbar_Lichy#7553 wrote:

Do you actually believe it's a lie and PoE 1 will die?

Not that I have a dog in this fight, but we're talking about two F2P games, with one set of MTX. Working on both games cuts the amount of effort, or doubles the number of developers or time needed. It also increases your hosting requirements and other assorted expenses... while maintaining the same MTX income.

That very well could lead to one of the two games getting shut down.

On the other hand, for smb like me who is going to play both, having MTX work in both is a huge pull.

Also is it confirmed that it's going to be 1 set? And even if the yearly ones are so, the league ones will be different.

That's fair, and that's where I'm at too. However - split playerbases usually result in a ton of issues.

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Akedomo#3573 wrote:

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chipninja#4276 wrote:

What you're missing, by not being a vet, is that a lot of these problems were solved in PoE 1. The trade search feature is one. Currency exchange is another, and a good addition.

I am a vet. Probably playing longer than you have. Started the game in 2011. You?

Ok I'll play. Your profile says "Joined: Feb 12, 2013" mine says "Joined: Mar 21, 2013" so you've absolutely got me there.

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Akedomo#3573 wrote:

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chipninja#4276 wrote:

The issue with a lack of proper crafting is that the game is tuned with the expectation that you've got all your required gear because "crafting" is more accessible.

The issue isn't the lack of proper crafting.

PoE 1's loot system was designed in such a way, that it promoted trading. And crafting. At the start it was good. But as the leagues went on. It became mandatory to craft gear or to trade to progress.

The issue is that. They're trying to put the same loot system into PoE 2. And you're now realizing how bad it is, without the crutch fix of currency to craft gear. You notice how bland the loot in the game is, because it is bland. It's boring and uninspired.

Just ask for them to redo loot. It's what the game needs. We don't need another PoE game with the same crappy loot in it.

Ok, we could talk about that.

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Akedomo#3573 wrote:

Lootsplosions on bosses feels good. And it would feel especially good on the bosses in these games. We don't need crafting mate.

And you lost the plot.

The solution to people failing to obtain their 75/75/75/75 resists isn't to just drop more trash blues on the ground, or a handful of yellows with a +8 attribute stat, + damage on hit (on a caster item), and a bunch of other garbage that, if even picked up, serves no purpose other than to junk at a vendor.


You're right that it's bland, boring, and uninspired - but it's because they are and always have been balancing for the economy. It was a major draw in D2, which was a major inspiration. As was D3, the related AH fiasco, and the resistance towards the idea.

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Akedomo#3573 wrote:

I also argue against 'solved'. Creating a problem, and then solving it with a new system, isn't exactly solving it. It's just.. Extra steps. More tedium.

That's exactly what they did. "Loot is boring, and most of it's trash. So we're going to drop less of it so it's more exciting."

That's literally the solution they came up with. Not better drops. Not more relevant ones like a prioritization system based off your skills/stats/whatever.

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Akedomo#3573 wrote:

Get to the root of the issue. Which is how bland and boring the loot is. How bad the RNG is. How you're forced to craft to progress.

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chipninja#4276 wrote:

The game's "difficulty" is almost entirely based on gear. If you've got effective gear, the game is easy. If you're unlucky, and unaware or unwilling to trade, it can be punishingly difficult with one shots by trash white mobs half a dozen or more levels below your character.

yup, this is the problem. If you don't craft or trade. You're heavily punished. This shouldn't be the case. Stuck on a boss? Farm another boss for a bit and see if you can get some upgrades.

We agree on a lot of this, but not on the solution. The whole reason more currency drops is to encourage it's use - which RNG screws you for. It also screwed you on the bases you need, and you don't often see a drop that's got a suitable affix to start with either...

Just increasing those numbers doesn't fix that issue.

For that matter, just allowing you to to alt/scourge/etc doesn't fix it either - but it does at least give you the ability to generate one or two mods that ARE helpful to you without having to vendor trash everything you find. Which is more or less where we're at now.

Even in maps I'm junking nearly everything, and the only way I'm finding an upgrade is on a trade site.

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Akedomo#3573 wrote:

I don't think you realize this, because this is a shared viewpoint between most veterans. But.. The solution isn't more crafting. It's a rework of the loot system. And they can do it. It's PoE 2.

This is a problem GGG created in PoE 1. They lowered good loot drops. They added TONS of items. The items are very very heavy on RNG. Meaning you need to play tons in order to get something good.

They fixed it with crafting, and had the expectation that most players would trade. But the issue still remains. Loot is boring and uninspired in this game. Largely the only time anyone is excited something drops is when it's a unique or... currency. And that's an issue for regular players.

Veteran's seem to be unable to put themselves into an average players shoe. Let me tell you. I have quite a few average gamer friends who have taken one look at this game and it's 'crafting' system, and said 'That's stupid'. They take one look at the way trading is done in this game, and well. My one friend just refunded his PoE 2 EA because of it.

These systems don't make the game better. They make it better for you, and how you've learnt how to play. But for the average player?

They'd rather items just drop off of epic bosses.

The lowered drops themselves aren't an issue. Nor is ramping difficulty up. The problem is the combination of factors. Focusing heavily on positioning, but doing everything mechanically possible to prevent your movement.

Focusing balancing on full resists, but not thinking that the average player isn't trading every other couple levels for upgrades.


Whites and blues right now are largely useless. With a RNG slot machine craft/trash cycle they serve no purpose at all if you fail to hit. At which point, it's just the yellow RNG slot machine with extra steps.

Thing is, that's also the majority of itemization early on (where new players are complaining of difficulty).

It's one piece of a larger set of issues. They have a tendency to isolate a single change they want to make, while ignoring all the other related effects. That's the bigger issue here - and honestly it's just kind of hand waved with "but muh dark souls."


Look, I agree that things can be streamlined to an extent for new players - but having known some that did the same thing, I'll absolutely point out that most are quitting far before quitting. Difficulty, having a billion items drop, being unable to determine what's important (while the rest of us are filtering 99.99% of drops) and trying to figure out how that interacts with a skill forest you need to take a majority of life/es/ev nodes in... That's where people were out with a "this is dumb."

Eliminating the need to take life/es/ev to the same extent is a positive change. It was universally needed, and made the selection pointless. Loot reduction will be too - but the loot itself either needs to be more SSF viable, or made that way more easily. Currency is dropping more reliably, which is fine - but it does no good if your bases are scrapped after the first one you use and you don't have any replacement bases dropping.

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sonik11#6442 wrote:

This isn't path of exile 2.

It's shitty diablo 2 remake. Nobody asked for this.

You want to be bored to tears with easy ass gameplay and less choices, less complexity, less everything? Poe2 is the game for you

Want 3 years of attack windup time to dodge an attack? PoE2 is the game for you


Fucking slow shit

Well I always thought they look up a bit too much to Diablo 2 in many ways, even now when they didn't need to and have their own thing. I want a shrimp druid and a crab druid, but it's wolf and bear again.

I disagree it's shitty though, and not sure what you mean by gameplay, because here it's often confused between actual moment to moment and strategic part. Unless you think PoE 1 moment to moment is harder, I saw a lot of people complaining that they can't watch a show and play the same time though.

Complexity does not equal depth, and some stuff in 1 is just bloat without much consequence, unless you count the brief moment of math. Again which gameplay do you have in mind.

Less everything well it's just a start, and yes a consequence of more emphasis on moment to moment has to be more shallow strategic part, a trade off.

And 3 years of windup, in theory that's all to force you to predict, and predict is part of depth. How it is pulled off is another matter, but it's early access, the intent clear and i like the intent.

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chipninja#4276 wrote:

I think it's a multi-faceted issue. PoE 1 needed you to have perfect resists, stats, or rolls on items. Which also contributed to needing to craft or trade.

I also don't think the game really gains much in the terms of trading. I get the idea behind it, but in reality.. You look up on a website what you want to buy. You press a button. You get invited, and you put some currency in the trade, and that's the entire interaction.

I'd much rather people have more rewarding group experiences to promote community. Rather than being forced to trade.

The whole loot thing is born of what PoE 1 is though. You needed resists because everything fking one shot you on maps. Because maps all had -% resists. Because you couldn't avoid half the damage.

It was mandatory for a lot of reasons. But again. They have a chance to change it in PoE 2.

The game is already part of the way there too. Being able to dodge roll, and the game putting more emphasis on dodging enemy/boss skills is already here. And that's far more fun. They also can tone down damage like that. So that you're not sitting there requiring perfect rolls on gear to play.

I do think they need to work on making the combat more fluid. Then they can work on the bosses and trash a bit, and provide a system that's more capable of letting mechanical skill shine through, rather than just relying on raw stats to avoid dying to something. This makes gear less necessary, and gives them room to change it up. Allowing for more interesting loot. Rather than a need to craft and trade.

I would rather be fighting bosses, and learning attack patterns. Than sitting in town crafting gear. And I think this is an opinion many hold that are just now joining this game. The loot system is bad. It feels bad. Being forced to craft feels bad. The trading system is just a mess.

I also believe currency could exist in PoE 2 after these changes. But not to craft gear, but rather enhance it. One system that people do enjoy, is socketing a item with a gem, or rune. And getting a more powerful item out of it. Currency could be used to maybe, reroll the stats on an item. Or add something to it. Much the same way that armorer scraps do. Or the runes currently do. This gives currency a value still, but it isn't being required to progress. It could even be used to 'enchant' gear much the same way many MMO's do. It's very much a similar system, but it's more about enhancing a piece, rather than crafting the perfect piece. It's easier to understand, and players will intuitively know how to use it very quickly, compared to the current system.

We have a chance to change it all in PoE 2. Make the game better. More gameplay oriented, more loot oriented. I don't understand why everyone wants it to be just like PoE 1.