So when are you going to halve Minions aka Walking Simulator?

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Timbo Zero#8289 wrote:

Let me explain why….
Trash isn’t trivial and needs care but is possible to kill at a rate that campaign won’t take 30+hours (once optimised playing if it has been achieved, it is taking me about 6-8 hours per act currently).
Bosses even with an army of minions are still very very dangerous and still have to learn their mechanics and execute them with near perfect efficiency (but with some scope for errors).

I can see the state of the game at the moment to be mostly for the so called 1% and builds that will campaign well but not get beyond tier 6-7 maps. This will not be a financial success, and neither would it be if they cater to the ‘casual’ player. It needs to be so too 20% this it’s a little too easy, the bottom 20% think it’s a little to hard and the 60% in the middle are content.

The level of my witch summoner has this range of ‘balance’ imo at the moment though am expect some minor nerfs so core is 15% too hard and then the league mechanic adds 15% of ease each 3 months in some way.

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Xzorn#7046 wrote:

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Timbo Zero#8289 wrote:

Let me explain why….
Trash isn’t trivial and needs care but is possible to kill at a rate that campaign won’t take 30+hours (once optimised playing if it has been achieved, it is taking me about 6-8 hours per act currently).
Bosses even with an army of minions are still very very dangerous and still have to learn their mechanics and execute them with near perfect efficiency (but with some scope for errors).

I can see the state of the game at the moment to be mostly for the so called 1% and builds that will campaign well but not get beyond tier 6-7 maps. This will not be a financial success, and neither would it be if they cater to the ‘casual’ player. It needs to be so too 20% this it’s a little too easy, the bottom 20% think it’s a little to hard and the 60% in the middle are content.

The level of my witch summoner has this range of ‘balance’ imo at the moment though am expect some minor nerfs so core is 15% too hard and then the league mechanic adds 15% of ease each 3 months in some way.

I understand the difference in performance based on level of each class. As I mentioned I'm in contact with IRL friends and we're all doing different things and comparing information. We're all pretty hardcore players and played PoE since beta.

I rerolled Deadeye and I've already noted I do much more damage out of the gate with higher clear but can get one-tapped. Something ES helps a lot in early game, esp with Bosses. The Deadeye situation will likely continue until I get Wind Ward.

I would say keep playing it more. Once you have double curses, double Offerings and oddly most importantly Firewall with Fortress feel free to bring up your experience. I genuinely mean that. I was the only person to go Minions in my group. Another went Totems.

My 13 Arsonists have 7.5k Life, 78% Max Res, 40% Phys. Add Enfeeble Curse, Bone Offering and they just eat damage. Add Flammability and Pain Offering and their damage output doubles.

It gets kinda silly and I didn't even use the offerings or curses for clearing. Just Flamewall.

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Timbo Zero#8289 wrote:

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Xzorn#7046 wrote:

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Timbo Zero#8289 wrote:

Let me explain why….
Trash isn’t trivial and needs care but is possible to kill at a rate that campaign won’t take 30+hours (once optimised playing if it has been achieved, it is taking me about 6-8 hours per act currently).
Bosses even with an army of minions are still very very dangerous and still have to learn their mechanics and execute them with near perfect efficiency (but with some scope for errors).

I can see the state of the game at the moment to be mostly for the so called 1% and builds that will campaign well but not get beyond tier 6-7 maps. This will not be a financial success, and neither would it be if they cater to the ‘casual’ player. It needs to be so too 20% this it’s a little too easy, the bottom 20% think it’s a little to hard and the 60% in the middle are content.

The level of my witch summoner has this range of ‘balance’ imo at the moment though am expect some minor nerfs so core is 15% too hard and then the league mechanic adds 15% of ease each 3 months in some way.

I understand the difference in performance based on level of each class. As I mentioned I'm in contact with IRL friends and we're all doing different things and comparing information. We're all pretty hardcore players and played PoE since beta.

I rerolled Deadeye and I've already noted I do much more damage out of the gate with higher clear but can get one-tapped. Something ES helps a lot in early game, esp with Bosses. The Deadeye situation will likely continue until I get Wind Ward.

I would say keep playing it more. Once you have double curses, double Offerings and oddly most importantly Firewall with Fortress feel free to bring up your experience. I genuinely mean that. I was the only person to go Minions in my group. Another went Totems.

My 13 Arsonists have 7.5k Life, 78% Max Res, 40% Phys. Add Enfeeble Curse, Bone Offering and they just eat damage. Add Flammability and Pain Offering and their damage output doubles.

It gets kinda silly and I didn't even use the offerings or curses for clearing. Just Flamewall.

Ok so I hear you and would like to say that you sound like you would be in my ‘top end 20% players’ group thinking the final game is a little bit too easy. My self I have played since Harbinger when it launched on XBox and have over 1000 hours played in 2024 (of my 1961 total player hours, MS does end of year highlights). I would class myself as outside the top 20% but right up pressed against it (please note I am referring to player skill not time played) having always hit 96-98 and last 5 leagues 40/40.

The problem for the success or failure of the (or any) game is appealing to the majority of players, and more so for PoE2 as they are hoping to attract new players. In its current state it will shed players faster than it gains them, but that’s ok (ish) at the moment because it’s early access and the ‘bleating’ in forums is excessive for this phase (although gamers are gamers so also understandable).

Over the next 6 months they need to get the game into that 60% band I mentioned, I’d expect towards the upper end of it as a league adds ‘ease’ by some new mechanic each 3 months (or potentially towards the lower end if they plan to make leagues that add difficulty rather than reward).

I think the game is already really damned good (few bugs aside) and it only really needs balancing. This worries me and I hope they aim for around the summoner area of medium, not the mercenary.
I haven’t played ranger but a friend has, had a terrible time and quit it before he could even ascend (he is nearer your skill than mine) another friend has quit monk for same reason, another quit a third class and that friend is easily in your band of skill.

Sorry it’s a long reply. But I love the potential of the game, love the complex bosses you have to learn and can’t outpower etc etc. We just need it to be in the right place where middle majority are happy and not pamper to the ‘hardcore’ or ‘casual” player, currently the game is too hard in act one first few areas till after Lachlan (sorry that’s certainly spelt wrong lol) for 70%+ of gamers and that’s wrong (imo).

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z3mcneil#3966 wrote:

If OP was there during vanilla WoW, would he suggest cancelling the Hunter and Warlock classes? Think he might. Don't tell other players that they're having fun the wrong way, period.

Specially the Witch class is not OP at all. The 2 ascendancies are also far from good, infernalist doesn't synergize well with minion builds and blood mage is straight broken piece of garbage that makes you weaker instead of better against bosses. Knowing how many players like minion builds, I wondor why GGG didn't put something like a Necromancer ascendancy fully dedicated to minion builds over blood mage.

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Gigs#6884 wrote:

If you don't use raging spirits or any sorc skills, how good is the witch really?

I personally like a few strong minions too, like a golem necro, but if someone else wants to run around with 20 temp skeletal dog things and look at lifebars all day, go ahead. Boring.

I will never understand this insane insistence on people being obsessed with skill and weapon balance in PVE games. Pro tip: don't watch other people play the game then. Buffing weak stuff is better than massively nerfing the good stuff unless it just ruins the game from a design perspective, but tons of devs officially endorse mods nowadays.