Who loves this game?

I don't. The difficulty is OK and the campaign is fun the first time, but I'm judging this game by how much I think I will want to re-play it and grind end game. And right now that is not at all.

The loot is in a terrible state. Not rewarding at all. Count me out if you think people are willing to grind for hours to get a few alchemy orbs. POE2 will die if they stick with this direction.

The campaign is also very problematic. This guy summed it up best in his conclusion:
https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/3604252

The campaign isn't actually made for anyone long-term. ARPG players won't want to replay the long and tedious campaign. POE1 was good because the campaign could be speedrun in fewer than 5-6 hours by most experienced players. When you play seasonal ARPGs, the end-game is the actual game. You don't want to spend 30+ hours doing the campaign every season.

And Dark Souls players will enjoy their first playthrough, but they won't come back either.

If the game stays in its current state, I think POE1 will have more active players than POE2 within 6 months of release. Maybe even sooner.

"

ARealLifeCaribbeanPirate#2605 wrote:

"

eldheim#2436 wrote:

I have beaten all of them, thanks. This is not my first or only account.
Even if I didn't, my posts stands.
Most people don't have 500 hours to sink into every single league.
Most people don't want to min max builds for 400 of those hours.
They need a part of the game that caters to a casual approach.

In POE1 you GET the hard grindy part of the game -you just get it at the end, not from the start.
I also see no arguments here, just trash-talking, as expected.
I was not telling people I am some gaming god, I am not. I am telling them this because I think I'm a reasonable arbiter of the average player.

And that should matter, as it is those that carry their entire studio, whether you like that or not.

Then you should post from that account, because posting from this account completely undermines every single one of your own points.

Even if the arguments was made from hypocrisy, it doesn't make them less valid.
This is basic debating theory. A person smoking can still tell you that "smoking is bad" and be right about it.

Engage with the arguments and give me counter arguments, instead of making this about person.
I gave a lot of them and my baseline was the fact that I am a pretty decent average of the POE1 players, in my mind at least.
You don't think so -fine. Still, contend with the arguments then.
Why are they not valid?

"

eldheim#2436 wrote:

"

Drazharm#0966 wrote:

Greetings.

I have spent a shitload of money on PoE 1 and I have over 3500 hours in it.

I love PoE 2. Don't speak on my behalf and many others.

Peace.

My post said

"

But most of the elitist "Just get good" or "make it even HARDER"

Doesn't mean I targeted you unless you specifically do that.
Read the entry.
I wrote "who loves this game" to see who actually does.
Thank you for replying.

Do you disagree with any of my arguments? What do you love about it?
It would be nice to know.

The proposed systems so far are great, yet they need some tweaking. The gem system requires of some refining (like getting more jeweler orbs or having them as a regular upgrade in some points of the campaign so the character doesn't lag behind in functionality), the skill tree is also very well thought out even if it needs some specialization in some areas, especially about damage on weapon types, nothing is going to be perfect in a EA.

The game has breathtaking visuals, the design level is amazing, enemy variety is also really good, boss fights are fun and engaging - even if the HP scaling is a bit off in some of them, but that's a matter of tweaking.

I like the fact the game also makes a contrast over PoE 1 by being slower and more blunt in the fighting, instead of "screen clearing galore" (which I also enjoy in PoE 1, mind), I simply don't think two games need to be paired and do exactly the same thing - otherwise why would I want a new entry, I wonder?

What I don't like?

1- We need travel skills, maps are too big sometimes and we're too slow (also we need those to disengage from mobs bodyblocking you)
2- Loot is not enough right now, but this was to be expected
3- I hate ultimatum, but I hated it on poe 1 as well lmao

Those two (and the half-meme third) are pretty much my big gripes about the game.

Sorry if I came about a bit too defensive, but the amount of negativity in this forum is absurd.

"

eldheim#2436 wrote:

Even if the arguments was made from hypocrisy, it doesn't make them less valid.

Yes, it does. It absolutely 100% does. Like I said before: glass house and stones.

"

This is basic debating theory. A person smoking can still tell you that "smoking is bad" and be right about it.

Engage with the arguments and give me counter arguments, instead of making this about person.
I gave a lot of them and my baseline was the fact that I am a pretty decent average of the POE1 players, in my mind at least.
You don't think so -fine. Still, contend with the arguments then.
Why are they not valid?

I don't even know what you're talking about re: your points. You mean, when you said that the majority of people loving PoE2 are inexperienced at PoE1 and/or not "real" supporters of GGG? THOSE points? Because the second is just a blatant No True Scotsman fallacy (which has already been proven wrong multiple times in this thread anyway) and the first... I mean, YOU are the one lacking PoE1 experience if you've literally never made it to endgame, my dude.

Maybe, just maybe, it's something else? Something that rhymes with Bill Tissue? Because when someone who literally can't beat pinnacle content after 5000 hours tries to speak from a position of authority, the blatant hypocrisy invalidates every single word which comes out of their mouth.

Just stop, please, you're hurting your own side of this argument.

Having played POE1 extensively here are my two cents

I’m enjoying the game, it does need a bit of polish and balancing but nothing major.

What I don’t want is for them to turn it into PoE1 where you can zoom through a map at blinding speed barely seeing what happens on screen. The pace right now is on a slower side they could bump it a few percent but not more.
My biggest fear is that they cave and add a ton of movement skills reduce difficulty and presto we back to zooming.

If you want PoE1 levels of speed and gameplay then play the first game.

GGG need to keep them separate and stick to the vision they have for the game

Just my opinion because that’s all it is. I’m enjoying it and like the slower pace gameplay when I feel like zooming I load up PoE1

PS: I LOVE the game btw.

Look, if youre not able or simply to lazy to figur things out on your own to beat a game in a propper pace, just wait few days.

In 1-2 weeks Youtube will be flooded with "most OP leveling strat", "beat all content with 1 button", "zoom through the game like in POE1", "beat every boss 1 hit only by looking at him", etc.....threads.

If GGG listen to all the whiners now and nerf the hell out of the mobs we'll end up with Diablo 4 (2.0) where even a ape who roll his head over the keyboard can bet 99% of the game without any effort.

The market is already saturated with trivial games for the "we don't count goals" generation, we don't need another one. ;)

"

eldheim#2436 wrote:

But build diversity is bottlenecked by wild gold costs for respecc'ing which is frankly outrageous.

I do feel that either gold drops should be improved or respec fees should be lowered. The entire reason to go this route is to help players when they brick their character, because Orbs of Regret were pretty uncommon drops.

"

Build diversity is further bottlenecked by ascendency trials that clearly heavily favors certain builds while punishing others.

I'm one of those players that makes weird builds that are typically quite sub par. I've had a number of characters that just weren't able to complete the Trials in PoE1 until they were able to vastly out-level it. And you know what? I was OK with that, and I'm still OK with that. Some builds are just not that great, and they're going to have a really hard time in Trials. If you're having a hard time, maybe go get a few levels, some gear and gem upgrades, then come back and try again.
Plus, we're still missing one of the Trials.

"

You promised enough currency to be able to self-craft gear.

I'll have to mostly agree here. I think Orb drop rate could be improved just a little bit. Not a lot, maybe 5-10%. That said, crafting seems to have a slightly different mentality than in PoE1. Do not blindly sell all those white and blue items. Some of those have really good base mods, and those are the items you want to spend those Orbs on. You shouldn't be looking only for Yellow drops, otherwise you're skipping past a ton of good items.

"

Slower pace does not correlate with bigger maps, especially when there is a hard reset upon death, not fast travel points, and no quest indicators.

The zone reset threw me off, but I think I actually like that, for the most part. If you died, it means you did something wrong, or your build isn't up to it, and this gives you more XP and drops to improve your build a bit before moving forward. HOWEVER, dying after you defeat a boss, due to a DoT or some other means, and having the loot in the group get deleted with the zone reset feels really, really bad.

"

Making white mobs three times as fast as the players, and HP sponges also does not increase difficulty.

I'll have to partially agree here. I don't mind that fast mobs exist, but it does feel like every enemy, except zombies, can easily out-pace our character.

"

The fact that my spacebar has been pressed more than any other button so far in this game is not indicative of a successful ARPG.

If you're using Dodge Roll that much, then you're doing it wrong. Dodge Roll is no faster that walking, does not move through enemies, and you deal no damage while moving. It should only really be used for that tiny burst of speed to get out of the way of a big attack. If your using it to get get away from enemies, that means you're not attacking. Instead, just walk away from them while attacking.

"

This is early access. You need to get people invested, engaged, and incentivized to try builds, skills, classes.
The clock is ticking. Your numbers will whittle and die out, and a lot will never come back.

People said this when PoE1 was in closed beta, back when it was just 1 Act, and Merveil was destroying characters. The amount of rage from the Merveil fight was real. Now, step back and think about that. Merveil; who was later redesigned to be even more difficult.

Early Access is just Closed Beta with a different name. The game is not perfectly balanced, there will be skills that over-perform and under-perform. There will be encounters that are over-tuned, and people will rage-quit. This all par for the course. Considering the state of PoE2 at the start of Closed Beta to PoE1 even when it had 2.5 Acts, GGG has truly outdone themselves with how good this game already is. But yes, we still need 6-12 months of improvements.

In a world of PoE1 , Grim Dawn , Last Epoch , Titan Quest , Diablo 2 thru 4 , and more .. PoE 2 will not struggle, but it won't retain the majority of ARPG fans.

V-Rising a Pseudo ARPG is what the "every game needs to be Souls like" and "make everything grind and hard" crowd should just go play .... PoE2 has a lot of good things, but ARPG it does not feel like.

It feels more like Souls + Diablo , akin to V-Rising. Fine for a while, but you tend to beat those games once, maybe twice, and move on.

I have thousands of hours in POE 1 and have played nearly every single league. I don't think I will ever return to poe 1. This game is a lot more like launch POE 1 or at least how I recall it. I do love it. I also realize its only 3 days old and in early access. But if they continue with the direction they are going with this game I find it better then POE 1 in every way but thats just my opinion.

"

eldheim#2436 wrote:

The people with little or no previous support of POE.
Not brushing everyone under one rug here. Exceptions are out there.

But most of the elitist "Just get good" or "make it even HARDER" are clearly players with little or no time in POE1 or that simply played it for free. I've been scrolling the forums here for most of the day on and off, and this seems reasonably consistent.

I hope GGG takes note. Who pays you for this SHOULD MATTER.

The big nuances posts of criticism usually comes from people with massive support over many years.
Myself included.

I'd say you are right I also observed this and I want to point out that I belong in this category albeit I do not tell people "just get good" etc.

What really annoys me - not only here also on reddit and youtube - is that "a lot" of people seem to find themselves in one of two factions: The ones who love and the ones who hate the game. I could bang my head against the wall when I read things like "had zero fun". This would also be true for the opposite ("had 100% fun").

Your points are valid although I do not agree with all of them but I think the loot or lack of loot/crafting material is indeed something which must be adressed.

I hope more people write feedback like yours.