grace / determination now a rip off???

50% reservation cost for basically a "granite or jade flask" is gross.
these auras post nerf now feel horrible if you dont further invest not only your 50% mana is gone, but you now need several gear slots of corresponding stat, then a flask on top, nodes on the tree, clusters? its a LOT to try squeeze in and still have respectable damage and whats worse? something still gonna 1 shot you eventually because focusing on 1 layer of defence in this game gets you nowhere, you need multiple.

so after you have invested in all of this to make your aura work. you now have zdps. and cant kill a bloody rare! its horrible =/ oh il just add a dps aura.... oh wait determination ate it all nvm...

i feel like 50% is too much now is the bottom line, they should match discipline at 35%.

(im not the best at wording my thoughts so i edited the post lol) probably still is like ?????

hehe...love the outrageous hyperbole in this statement.

"Determination is basically a granite flask"

Uh....not at all. It is way way way way more than a granite flask, especially combined with the much higher armour bases.

Sure, taken all by itself in a vacuum, it is equivalent to a Granite flask.

But you don't run it by itself. Generally, you are running it with at least SOME other armor gear which all got some pretty serious buffs. That multiplier alone makes it still worth 50%.

A slight decrease in power on something that was already incredibly OP doesn't make it "dead".


"really not a fan of these "defensive" auras feeling like they have no defensive impact"
You don't just slap on a defensive aura and expect impact. Or at least you shouldn't. Purity of elements (alone) had basically zero endgame impact unless you planned accordingly, and thats been 50%. Where's your complaint?
A well planned armour build PLUS determination makes maximum use of the aura and DEFINITELY feels the impact. The problem with the former version is exactly that: you just had to slap it on and instant huge armour numbers. On any build. THIS was a problem, not the nerfed version.

Just like if I ran Wrath on a fire build...certainly not feeling the impact. But put on a scaling lightning damage build and all of a sudden: instant damage multiplier.

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jsuslak313 wrote:

hehe...love the outrageous hyperbole in this statement.

"Determination is basically a granite flask"

Uh....not at all. It is way way way way more than a granite flask, especially combined with the much higher armour bases.

Sure, taken all by itself in a vacuum, it is equivalent to a Granite flask.

But you don't run it by itself. Generally, you are running it with at least SOME other armor gear which all got some pretty serious buffs. That multiplier alone makes it still worth 50%.

A slight decrease in power on something that was already incredibly OP doesn't make it "dead".


"really not a fan of these "defensive" auras feeling like they have no defensive impact"
You don't just slap on a defensive aura and expect impact. Or at least you shouldn't. Purity of elements (alone) had basically zero endgame impact unless you planned accordingly, and thats been 50%. Where's your complaint?
A well planned armour build PLUS determination makes maximum use of the aura and DEFINITELY feels the impact. The problem with the former version is exactly that: you just had to slap it on and instant huge armour numbers. On any build. THIS was a problem, not the nerfed version.

Just like if I ran Wrath on a fire build...certainly not feeling the impact. But put on a scaling lightning damage build and all of a sudden: instant damage multiplier.

bro i know how auras work and scale, my armour and evasions literally halved on a mid-late aurabot. it feels gross. but yeah slight exaduration at "flask" comparison BUT the matter of fact is, if they got a 50% nerf, then they shouldnt be a 50% aura anymore, thats the main rant here :/

purity is early game ailment solution + res cap, its powerful for what it is, and its not the topic here :P.

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Cchris07 wrote:

purity is early game ailment solution + res cap, its powerful for what it is, and its not the topic here :P.

It absolutely is part of the argument! It is one of three 50% defense auras. You ignore it for your argument, because its easier that way. But its not correct.

Grace and Determination have been severely overpowered for a long time. So yes...50% reduction in power while retaining the 50% aura still makes sense. Finally, they are brought more in line with everything else.

And no....clearly you DON'T understand the auras because you would also know that you can't compare how they perform on an old character to how they perform on a newly geared character, with higher bases that have almost 2x base armor/evasion which can then be further scaled with the "more" multiplier that quality provides now.

Base Determination gives a naked character 1500 armor. But scaled with an armor character, and determination could be granting 10s of thousands of armor. That is absolutely worth 50% still. Compare it to discipline (35%)...which only gives 220ish flat energy shield. Determination still blows it out of the water in terms of numbers.

The power lost from the aura is made up almost entirely through the changes to gear. BUT here's the kicker: you only feel it if you are using the aura. So it still has exactly the same use at the high end, just less power with less investment.

As it should be.

"

jsuslak313 wrote:

"

Cchris07 wrote:

purity is early game ailment solution + res cap, its powerful for what it is, and its not the topic here :P.

It absolutely is part of the argument! It is one of three 50% defense auras. You ignore it for your argument, because its easier that way. But its not correct.

Grace and Determination have been severely overpowered for a long time. So yes...50% reduction in power while retaining the 50% aura still makes sense. Finally, they are brought more in line with everything else.

And no....clearly you DON'T understand the auras because you would also know that you can't compare how they perform on an old character to how they perform on a newly geared character, with higher bases that have almost 2x base armor/evasion which can then be further scaled with the "more" multiplier that quality provides now.

Base Determination gives a naked character 1500 armor. But scaled with an armor character, and determination could be granting 10s of thousands of armor. That is absolutely worth 50% still. Compare it to discipline (35%)...which only gives 220ish flat energy shield. Determination still blows it out of the water in terms of numbers.

The power lost from the aura is made up almost entirely through the changes to gear. BUT here's the kicker: you only feel it if you are using the aura. So it still has exactly the same use at the high end, just less power with less investment.

As it should be.

the conversations not about purity of elements and its perfect as it stands, i use purity all the time until i can stormshroud or weave my way out of it with gear, so eventually if you know how to build, you save 50% reservation. but early game it offers you res cap and ailment immunity which is unfathomably powerful. 1500 armour and a 30% more. is just not standalone.

they are not worth using at 50% cost UNLESS you are filling your gear slots to now correspond, which is a HUGE NERF to any unique specific builds that require those items to build the build, the "armour buffs and new bases" do not make up for this scenario.

your entitled to your opinion as am i, as an endgame juicer that runs very difficult content, im noticing the nerf. lowering reservation cost doesnt seem like a big ask, especially since we lost defiance banner, to enable room for either a petrified blood set up or an extra dps aura to help. :/ idk what your not getting about that lol.

"And no....clearly you DON'T understand the auras because you would also know that you can't compare how they perform on an old character to how they perform on a newly geared character, with higher bases that have almost 2x base armor/evasion which can then be further scaled with the "more" multiplier that quality provides now."

ive made 4 ci mageblood aurabot builds from scratch for the past 4 leagues in a row, lets not slam me with the "you dont" when i clearly do. your leaning into your own biased views and being insulting instead of actually just going "oh no i think 50% is fine" pass.

just to be clear here, im not disagreeing that they are balanced with gear. but not every build can use said gear. so when you consider that 50% is a rip off.

Yea I mean this is 100% a great change.

Esp if its unique ridden builds that involved range/spells. This is a indirect nerf to those builds as they might have to actually start running the new bases.

As for melee, the new base types really push our armour/eva to crazy levels, I dont even need determination. I have never had this tanky of a character ever, and I ran summoner for like 3+ leagues in a row WITH determination and cap block spell/attack.


Definitely a good step in the right direction as most of the damage ridden builds spamming uniques, and then relying on determination/grace for carry was a really stupid archetype to begin with.

"

Mashgesture wrote:

Yea I mean this is 100% a great change.

Esp if its unique ridden builds that involved range/spells. This is a indirect nerf to those builds as they might have to actually start running the new bases.

As for melee, the new base types really push our armour/eva to crazy levels, I dont even need determination. I have never had this tanky of a character ever, and I ran summoner for like 3+ leagues in a row WITH determination and cap block spell/attack.


Definitely a good step in the right direction as most of the damage ridden builds spamming uniques, and then relying on determination/grace for carry was a really stupid archetype to begin with.

yeah its definitely thrown a wrench into building, im glad melee has some perks now, do you think its that unethical to lower it to 35% though? so the weaker builds can at least fit a dps aura in to go with ? i feel like picking auras has gotten so tight lately

It didn't even get nerfed you got higher bases to counter the nerf but I guess you don't know that.

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Coconutdoggy wrote:

It didn't even get nerfed you got higher bases to counter the nerf but I guess you don't know that.

???? its literally the post my guy

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Cchris07 wrote:

yeah its definitely thrown a wrench into building, im glad melee has some perks now, do you think its that unethical to lower it to 35% though? so the weaker builds can at least fit a dps aura in to go with ? i feel like picking auras has gotten so tight lately

Nah I think the change is probably for the better.

Players that played these archetypes have to GIVE UP some of these crazy offensive scaling uniques so they can get the new base types to fit in their defense.

Its silly if you are going to have all these multipliers on your gear for offense and then just slap on determ/grace and be like "welp that was easy".


It seems like that makes determ/grace almost useless but... Idk they were silly auras to begin with that you could fit too much power throughout your build by just slapping them on. I think they could have their use... but it should be like... situational maybe.

Like say you rolled a map that has crazy modifiers on it, and you still want to run it for whatever reason (quant is high, need the bonus, other bonuses...) drop your offensive aura at least for THAT map and throw on determ or grace.


Their nerf though has been a pattern, GGG has been pretty relentless against these two auras across several leagues now:

1: Reduced magnitude of mana reservation efficiency nodes on the tree
2: Removal of grace/determination specific reservation efficiency on armor/eva mastery nodes
3: Halved their respective value

Id suggest honestly trying to make a build with next to 0 reliance on them going forward.