A change to melee (yes this again)

"

exsea wrote:

there are many things that led to this. melee bad is one component, t17s are bad (in my pov), powercreeps in POE is (also my pov).

and i think there is one major issue which led to melee being bad.

which is power creep. GGG doesnt like nerfing players as getting nerfed isnt fun.

Idk man... GGG really didn't care that time when they buffed bosses hp by 400%. Didn't affect top players much, but literally erased builds that were struggling a bit against bosses.

Or that time they heavily nerf the "%more damage" support gems, again hurting a loooooot of builds/skills that underperform while top builds don't even notice the difference.

So, from my experience GGG doesn't care about nerfing the mid/low end of the spectrum, either directly or indirectly

"

Gordyne wrote:

"

exsea wrote:

there are many things that led to this. melee bad is one component, t17s are bad (in my pov), powercreeps in POE is (also my pov).

and i think there is one major issue which led to melee being bad.

which is power creep. GGG doesnt like nerfing players as getting nerfed isnt fun.

Idk man... GGG really didn't care that time when they buffed bosses hp by 400%. Didn't affect top players much, but literally erased builds that were struggling a bit against bosses.

Or that time they heavily nerf the "%more damage" support gems, again hurting a loooooot of builds/skills that underperform while top builds don't even notice the difference.

So, from my experience GGG doesn't care about nerfing the mid/low end of the spectrum, either directly or indirectly

ggg normally doesnt nerf they actually rarely nerf. as far as i remember theres only 2-3 major game wide nerfs in the game? maybe less? i really cant recall.

the "more damage" nerf hit hard but at least it hit all players. but its exactly as what you said. its an unbalanced nerf. they buffed monsters/bosses to have more hp but did not reduce them after nerfing our damage.

and who suffers the most? mid/low ranged players. when youre doing 1 billion dps, losing 40% is a lot but you're still doing 600mill dps. if youre doing 5 million dps, losing 40% makes you do 3 mill... which players do feel the difference.

especially with the content ggg churned out with maven where DPS is kinda king. take too long and you're up against multiple bosses. have too little dps, maven will shield them and heal them up. if your dps is really not enough they actually outheal your damage and could even get back to full health in worst cases.

the bar set by ggg is simply too high.

"

exsea wrote:

"

Gordyne wrote:

"

exsea wrote:

there are many things that led to this. melee bad is one component, t17s are bad (in my pov), powercreeps in POE is (also my pov).

and i think there is one major issue which led to melee being bad.

which is power creep. GGG doesnt like nerfing players as getting nerfed isnt fun.

Idk man... GGG really didn't care that time when they buffed bosses hp by 400%. Didn't affect top players much, but literally erased builds that were struggling a bit against bosses.

Or that time they heavily nerf the "%more damage" support gems, again hurting a loooooot of builds/skills that underperform while top builds don't even notice the difference.

So, from my experience GGG doesn't care about nerfing the mid/low end of the spectrum, either directly or indirectly

ggg normally doesnt nerf they actually rarely nerf. as far as i remember theres only 2-3 major game wide nerfs in the game? maybe less? i really cant recall.

the "more damage" nerf hit hard but at least it hit all players. but its exactly as what you said. its an unbalanced nerf. they buffed monsters/bosses to have more hp but did not reduce them after nerfing our damage.

and who suffers the most? mid/low ranged players. when youre doing 1 billion dps, losing 40% is a lot but you're still doing 600mill dps. if youre doing 5 million dps, losing 40% makes you do 3 mill... which players do feel the difference.

especially with the content ggg churned out with maven where DPS is kinda king. take too long and you're up against multiple bosses. have too little dps, maven will shield them and heal them up. if your dps is really not enough they actually outheal your damage and could even get back to full health in worst cases.

the bar set by ggg is simply too high.

Given hes the easiest boss (imo) take uber shaper for example. There are clones doing multiple sets of balls and multiple beams on the screen. There is a radius you have to be able to stand around shaper to hit him unless you can tank all of his abilities simulaneously. (rip lethe shade for bottom left enjoyers)(i could tank all this with divergent trauma cause of the sheer amount of regen at the trauma stacks i could get to) Then you have the balls that chase you around where if you make a mistake (from absolutely 0 visual clarity between melee animations and shapers animations) you further limit the space you can stand. You have no control over where shaper ends up and he can very well end up in corners you cant stand. If you cant hit him you cant get fortify, if you're vaal pact if you cant hit him you have no regen.

You can't design something like this. Then think to yourself, I don't know why everyone just wants to make a build that one shot phases these bosses and almost nobody does these bosses on melee that can't trivialize the fight.

I usually am able to kill uber shaper in hc with around 1.5-2m uber dps on melee but its very stressful and takes a lot of investment to do safely. There is no value in farming uber shaper in sc with that little of dps. you will make no currency. The people that aspire to push into this content on the old school tried and true builds just feel constant disappointment. If there are people that have no ambition that are just fine farming white map essences they don't understand the ambitious persons point of view. You just feel stuck having to play molten strike pf or splitting steel trickster or some not fun (to me) build. (i hate boneshatter too) The animation sound is aggitating to me. hot take, I actually like the triple warcry noises

"

exsea wrote:

ggg normally doesnt nerf they actually rarely nerf. as far as i remember theres only 2-3 major game wide nerfs in the game? maybe less? i really cant recall.

the "more damage" nerf hit hard but at least it hit all players. but its exactly as what you said. its an unbalanced nerf. they buffed monsters/bosses to have more hp but did not reduce them after nerfing our damage.

Yep, it hits all players. But that's the problem... If that's their nerf "mindset" then it is better for them to not nerf anything OR buff monsters AT ALL.

The only builds that actually feel nerfed ingame are the ones that weren't doing even 20% the dmg of the OP builds/setups.

So, imo they should do targeted nerfs on X Y and Z that are really broken or just deactivate their nerfing nukes.

"

Lonnie455Rich wrote:

uber shaper

uber shaper+elder is actually the best example of melee disparity.

one dude did that encounter with a character below level 30?

dont think he would be able to do it "trumelee"

and if he did it would probably take a much longer time.

also i tried uber sirus. huge aoes appear right around the boss. i cant reach him. and when i get a nice opportunity to wail on him what happens? an aoe spawns directly beneath my feet.

most of the time i dont realize fast enough anyway.

the game simply isnt designed around trumelee. hence ggg giving up on melee for poe1.

"

Gordyne wrote:

"

exsea wrote:

Yep, it hits all players. But that's the problem... If that's their nerf "mindset" then it is better for them to not nerf anything OR buff monsters AT ALL.

The only builds that actually feel nerfed ingame are the ones that weren't doing even 20% the dmg of the OP builds/setups.

So, imo they should do targeted nerfs on X Y and Z that are really broken or just deactivate their nerfing nukes.

i initially thought that the way ggg does nerfs etc its really unfair to the weaker players.

but after how they tried forcing players to do ubers with "bridges" i m on the mindset that if you're weak POE1 is not the game for you.

GGG now expects players to be good/follow builds and actually clear the toughest content in the game. if you arent there, or are far away from it, you have to climb or else this game simply isnt for you.

and this hits hard toward trumelee as it was an unintended consequence of introducing increasingly difficult content

Except it's not a "weaker players" problem.

There are entire archetypes that are 10x weaker even when building decently.
This is a problem with broken balance.

One player can put the same ammount of effort into build X and be 1000% more efficient just because he chose the right archetype or what broken interaction is good at the moment. To many things that are weaker than other for no good reason, just pitfalls.

Perfect example is melee x ranged and melee dot that can't get fortify for absolutely no reason
Builds that can deal damage while moving x selfcast...

Unless you're using very specific skills/setups you'll do waaaaaay less damage than ranged due to uptime. Even if your build is right.

So, I don't think it's a weak player issue, but player that choose what is broken and those that do not.

I wouldn't really care if some archetypes were 50-70% less efficient than others, but PoE is on a whole other level with that disparity.

IMO the strong players are actually the ones trying to make their own off meta builds and have success because those are actually playing the game. The others are following guides or searching forums and reddit for the next broken mechanic before making a build.

Sorry, I can't say that GGG nerfs things correctly. Their nerfs are atrocious no matter what reason they give

Honestly love all the comments in this thread.. didn't think I'd see any comments. 11 years this games been around and I don't really remember any league where everyone on poe ninja top dps / top depth for delve was melee/slam but I do remember where they were ranged/caster... -every league I've ever played-

controversial opinion - abolish all warcries including battlemages strenght stack bread and butter and just buff the hell out of slams, give them some single target leech ability thats viable too compared to some of the other attacks.

Anyways pretty sure right now GGG are updating patch notes for 3.25 with "added XXX for casters and ranged everything oh and nerfed XYZ melee skill"

lol

"

Sydneydonza wrote:

Honestly love all the comments in this thread.. didn't think I'd see any comments. 11 years this games been around and I don't really remember any league where everyone on poe ninja top dps / top depth for delve was melee/slam but I do remember where they were ranged/caster... -every league I've ever played-

controversial opinion - abolish all warcries including battlemages strenght stack bread and butter and just buff the hell out of slams, give them some single target leech ability thats viable too compared to some of the other attacks.

Anyways pretty sure right now GGG are updating patch notes for 3.25 with "added XXX for casters and ranged everything oh and nerfed XYZ melee skill"

lol

since they fixed the poeninja cheating its pretty much always just replica alberons/original sin/adorned on the top You cant really compare the top dps on poeninja on playability imo.

I'm going to say it again for the 90th time out of nowhere. Warlords call is stupid.

I mean I kinda get that but I have a zerker in league str stacking without even using OG sin and his damage is ridiculous like deletes most bosses in a second or 2 so defence isn't really needed - can't do delve at all so the playability comment is definitely relevant and makes sense. I mean though to get the ring from Sanctum you need to be good or you need to make a lot of currency doing decent content so they must have decent playability or big shock using over powered caster/ranged class (dont think melee could to an untouched sanctum that easy) so it's gone full circle back to balance lol