Borrowed Power should not be the new standard / Predicament of standard

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jsuslak313 wrote:

well....this is not even CLOSE to true at all. Clearly you are biased because you lost something you invested heavily into....but almost every year there is something that is completely deleted from league to standard. Exalt / Divine switch, potion values, watchstones, onslaught weapons and gear, mana reservation EVERYTHING, beastcrafts, harvest crafts, etc. It is disingenuous or just plain wrong to say sanctified relics was the "first" time something was straight up deleted. In fact, I can't remember a single span of any time greater than a year that something in standard didn't just go "poof".

Balance changes =/= borrowed power, plenty of those times stuff in standard got stronger too it isn't the same as a direct "i'm going to give you 4 extra proj and impales last 4 extra hits for a league then remove them next league" which never exist in standard to begin with.

Sanctified relics was the first instance of this where significant power creep didn't even touch standard, it existed in league in isolation and never even made it over to be buffed/nerfed. Whereas now that is the norm hence the thread IMO

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Draegnarrr wrote:

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jsuslak313 wrote:

well....this is not even CLOSE to true at all. Clearly you are biased because you lost something you invested heavily into....but almost every year there is something that is completely deleted from league to standard. Exalt / Divine switch, potion values, watchstones, onslaught weapons and gear, mana reservation EVERYTHING, beastcrafts, harvest crafts, etc. It is disingenuous or just plain wrong to say sanctified relics was the "first" time something was straight up deleted. In fact, I can't remember a single span of any time greater than a year that something in standard didn't just go "poof".

Balance changes =/= borrowed power, plenty of those times stuff in standard got stronger too it isn't the same as a direct "i'm going to give you 4 extra proj and impales last 4 extra hits for a league then remove them next league" which never exist in standard to begin with.

Sanctified relics was the first instance of this where significant power creep didn't even touch standard, it existed in league in isolation and never even made it over to be buffed/nerfed. Whereas now that is the norm hence the thread IMO

i thought i explained this in great detail already yet people still can misunderstand. thanks for helping to clarify.

@op: [Removed by Support] There is only one point you are making in this thread: don't delete my temporary league items! Has nothing to do with borrowed power, nor anything related to previous games or whatever else you wrote in the first responses. It is a simple case of being upset that items were deleted.

For the record: "borrowed power" can only be true if the power is indeed "borrowed", that is, something taken from an initial mode and MOVED to another mode. When an item is deleted (sanctified relics) BEFORE being migrated to standard, it can't possibly BE "borrowed" from anywhere. You imply that league power is somehow "borrowed" from standard power, when this is just simply a false starting point.

In actuality, through CW's (and others) own words through MANY interviews across the last DECADE of PoE: standard is NOT the focus and almost never was, temporary leagues are. Nearly all money comes in through temporary leagues, nearly all (if not ALL) development and design decisions are made for temporary leagues. Standard league was perhaps the focus for the beta before temporary leagues were even a thing, but as early as the very first temporary leagues and purchasable packs linked to those leagues, that focus entirely shifted to temporary leagues. Standard very quickly became a simple dumping ground. Sure, more people played standard back in the early days because the damage was minimal but as time went on....and not a single thing changed about standard, players got smarter. They realized that Standard was not the "main" game mode, nor was it truly ever intended to be. Your previous assertion that "temporary leagues are a testing ground for standard" has never been true and is a completely made up statement.

As you can't provide proof, let me provide the proof: there exist items in standard that are bugged, broken, mechanics that make you effectively immortal, mechanics that literally don't work, and not a single standard-only change since the beta. Meanwhile, every 3-4 months we get pages and pages and pages of notes for league content, balance updates (coinciding only with temporary league releases), press releases, packs, mtx, etc. It is exceedingly clear what the "main" game mode is in GGG's eyes.

My previous post was deleted not because of anything negative, but because it quoted a previously removed response but I do want to reiterate: all the answers to your questions are in the NAME of the game mode "TEMPORARY league". Since the very first leagues Anarchy and Onslaught it was NEVER the case that league mechanics, league-specific items, etc. would be permanent fixtures once the league ended. As early as 2.0 or even before, we were told pretty often by GGG the data: hardly anyone played standard, by comparison to temporary leagues. Not once did GGG ever state your items would remain untouched upon the end of a temporary league, and frankly if you believed this to be the case then it was an exceptionally erroneous oversight completely ignoring the NAME of the game mode you are playing.

To add: so what if Sanctified relics were the first item to actually disappear before ever migrating to standard? In fact....I would argue that is a BETTER situation than the "go in and remove items later" strategy that they had been using for years prior. People play standard as a "permanent" league, meaning they can develop a character without any time constraints. If GGG goes in and changes items LATER, that is a far more disastrous situation for standard than deleting items BEFORE they get to standard.

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Lonnie455Rich wrote:

I think the problem with sanctified relics fundamentally is that they had an inventory slot that doesn't exist anymore.

Same thing with charms. Unless they make some part of affliction go core.

If they took heist out of the game the trinket slot wouldn't exist anymore either.

Crucible was the best borrowed power test they did since i started really playing the game as an addict in ultimatum. Being able to buff 2h melee weapons made it feel alright. The only bad part was that you had to self craft the weapon and anyone thats crafted a 2h melee weapon knows the pain unless you get dictators fractured off the ground on the right base.

yeah i agree about what you said about sanctified relics. GGG wasnt sure if they wanted to add sanctum to core but didnt want to create a situation where most of the players had no s.relic slot while a bunch of random standard players have s.relics.

i would also say s.relics were TOO STRONG. the range of stuff they could roll was huge. some rolls were crappy but you could even get stuff like +1 max charge which is crazy huge.

charms is exactly the same issue.

i think they left heist trinkets in because of 2 reasons. the first is that it gave ZERO player power. and 2nd is because i believe they were making heist core anyway so it didnt matter to them to leave it in.

crucible i would argue is not borrowed power as we ended up keeping our gear.


anyway, GGG has announced theyre poofing affliction goods. RIP.

Btw, even tho i'm on the D4 Bad trainwagon, one thing D4 does that is currently better than GGG is they announce their intentions early.

WHAT HAPPENS TO MY CHARACTER/PROGRESSION AFTER THE SEASON ENDS?
The character and progress on that character is transferred to the Eternal Realm. You can play this character whenever you want in the Eternal Realm. Specific Season-only features will no longer be accessible in the Eternal Realm. Learn more at https://news.blizzard.com/diablo4/24053482/.

This is shown in their seasonal page. its always shown from the first day that the season page goes up, which is normally the same day as the announcement.

players dont need to second guess.

to be honest, the fact that GGG is being tight lipped about future leagues and only revealing the fate of our gear by near the end of the league. thats QUITE SHADY.

they know that if they go D4 route, they effectively KILL interest of people like me (play temp league to enrich std)

by NOT announcing early, they put the burden on the player.

MAYBE WE WILL BE KEEPING IT. MAYBE..... OR MAYBE NOT. WHO KNOWS? EVEN WE DONT KNOW. I GUESS YOU'LL HAVE TO PLAY FOR A FEW MONTHS AND FIND OUT! HEHEHEHE - "GGG"

dear GGG. if you think the gear/power you're giving players is too strong that you're afraid of it going to standard, please just remove it or nerf it to begin with.

HECK, even a mid league nerf is preferable at this point.

i kinda miss not needing to second guess myself.

I remember GGG advertising once that "you can make a buid with any gem".
Can't think on a bigger lie.
The truth is that many gems never see the light of the day.
Not because, simply, there are better options.
Just because they're unplayable. You just can't enjoy the game with them. Can't progress in it, with them. Too weak. Some gems don't scale even with high investment, or if they do, is just not worth it. Because even with expensive itens, they're still weak. Too weak to properly play the game, even on it's easy, (not uber bossing), mode.
I'm not even asking to all gems to be equaly good. More playable gems would be enough. To cite some. Look at the state of puncture, sweep, (so much in the melee category),glacial hammer, counterattacks, links in general, blight, frozen legion... I don't think someone ever played conversion trap. Is just a novelty. The list still goes for quite a while.

^so i guess the folks who made builds all the way to level 100 using every one of the skills you mentioned are all liars too? So much for "never see the light of day"....even in HC, many of the skills you named are primary skills on lvl 90+ characters. Totally impossible...

Don't get me wrong, there are TERRIBLE skills. All the ones you mentioned are indeed terrible: but it is NOT a lie to say you can't make a build using them. The lie is the sense of belief that they should perform equally, which you admit in your post is NOT the goal. So the question is: what do you actually want? Some skills are naturally going to better than other skills. Some skills that have similar effects will have wildly different power. That will never change.

I do think GGG can approach these skills and do something for them, but don't kid yourself into thinking that builds cannot be made with all skills. **I will admit though: links were DOA and I can't see any way to fix them.

For the record, counterattack builds are still EXCELLENT. They just don't boss well. They are incredible for delirium farming.

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jsuslak313 wrote:

^so i guess the folks who made builds all the way to level 100 using every one of the skills you mentioned are all liars too? So much for "never see the light of day"....

Don't get me wrong, there are TERRIBLE skills. All the ones you mentioned are indeed terrible: but it is NOT a lie to say you can't make a build using them. The lie is the sense of belief that they should perform equally, which you admit in your post is NOT the goal. So the question is: what do you actually want? Some skills are naturally going to better than other skills. Some skills that have similar effects will have wildly different power. That will never change.

I do think GGG can approach these skills and do something for them, but don't kid yourself into thinking that builds cannot be made with all skills. **I will admit though: links were DOA and I can't see any way to fix them.

It's a lie.
I challenge you to show me one person that went to level 100 with sweep and those other novelties that I cited there.
It just never happened.
You can even play T16 with them.
And if you do manage it will be in the speed of a turtle.
So what you wrote.
Also a lie.
Something you can't prove. Does not exists.
Maybe one counterattack works tough. I will admit that. But it's skill weak. Really. Just test it on PoB

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fenixsemcinzas wrote:

It's a lie.
I challenge you to show me one person that went to level 100 with sweep, puncture, and those other novelties that I cited there.
It just never happened.
You can even play T16 with them.
And if you do manage it will be in the speed of a turtle.
So what you wrote.
Also a lie.
Something you can't prove. Does not exists.

You are so right, its a total lie. Can't prove it. Oh wait....

https://poe.ninja/builds/affliction?skills=Sweep
https://poe.ninja/builds/affliction?skills=Puncture
https://poe.ninja/builds/affliction?skills=Vengeance
https://poe.ninja/builds/affliction?skills=Glacial+Hammer
https://poe.ninja/builds/affliction?skills=Blight

I won't go any further. They are by no means "good" skills....but they function. And people DO take them to 100.

Pick up a bow that deals a ton of physical damage: there will ALWAYS be skill tiers: the best, the good, the mediocre, and the trash. Trash doesn't mean non-functional, anything below "best" doesn't mean unplayable. But I'm also not arguing that they are good. Merely pointing out that there is no lie.

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jsuslak313 wrote:

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fenixsemcinzas wrote:

It's a lie.
I challenge you to show me one person that went to level 100 with sweep, puncture, and those other novelties that I cited there.
It just never happened.
You can even play T16 with them.
And if you do manage it will be in the speed of a turtle.
So what you wrote.
Also a lie.
Something you can't prove. Does not exists.

You are so right, its a total lie. Can't prove it. Oh wait....

https://poe.ninja/builds/affliction?skills=Sweep
https://poe.ninja/builds/affliction?skills=Puncture
https://poe.ninja/builds/affliction?skills=Vengeance
https://poe.ninja/builds/affliction?skills=Glacial+Hammer
https://poe.ninja/builds/affliction?skills=Blight

I won't go any further. They are by no means "good" skills....but they function.

Pick up a bow that deals a ton of physical damage: there will ALWAYS be skill tiers: the best, the good, the mediocre, and the trash. Trash doesn't mean non-functional, anything below "best" doesn't mean unplayable. But I'm also not arguing that they are good. Merely pointing out that there is no lie.

They have a mageblood.
It does not counts. Is impossible to level properly with those gems.
They don't "made to level hundred" with that
Also, blight best damage is 296 k