this league was fun, lets not do it again any time soon
" yeah, thats partly my point right? a league like this or harvest/perandus is essentially resting on that for the most. core harvest gameplay was not fun but it bribed you to keep doing it because it just gave you the thing the game had conditioned you to value. this is the first 2 lines i wrote in the thread... " im pointing out that this is not a healthy sort of league for the game and the players. not only do these sort of mechanics bribe you into repeating poor gameplay, but they also erode the sense of value that the bribe itself is dependent on. so while they do genuinely give us a bit of fun for a moment, they do so by stealing that fun from other moments of the game and are inherently unsustainable. i think the gameplay of the woods in this league was actually fun unlike harvest and perandus tho. " its a loot hunt game based around a trade economy. why are you playing this game and not a game with better gameplay that doesnt have a loot hunt aspect and an economy based around a sense of value in its items? an aspect of slot machine is built into the game and that is fine. people get genuinely excited about their leisure activities. have you ever watched sports fans when their team scores a goal? is every passionate football fan a manbaby? is that unhealthy behaviour? i think its actually healthy to care about things and find that amount of joy in things you do. i think a loot hunt game needs a spell and breaking it is not good for the game. i know what ur saying about the dopamine bomb effect. i would caution against attaching too heavy a value judgement on such things though because ultimately our entire brain works on dopamine, serotonin etc, everything you care about, everything that makes you happy is working on a release of these chemicals in your synapses and you live in a reality where all sense of meaning is an illusion you create and buy into in your own mind. if we try and justify our actions by pretending that there is some kind of tangible value to them outside of our experience its essentially building a house of cards within our own sense of purpose. our world could turn final destination on us at any point, the wing comes off the plane, the bus goes off the bridge and everything is over, all meaning and purpose lost. everything reduced to a history of moments where you either triggered your brain chemistry to enjoy yourself or you didnt, that was our lives. in the end, everything was a spell. some spells can become problematic for certain individuals at points in their lives, i totally get what ur saying and obviously thats a thing. but essentially all fun, purpose and meaning in the human experience is a spell so yay for spells, theyre what makes life worth living. " exactly. if the sense of fun is derived from something being abnormal by definition you cannot make that the normal state of the game. we can disagree about how often its ok to dip into that abnormal realm, thats a totally fair debate, but i dont think its a matter of opinion that its unsustainable as a permanent state. the normal state of the game is already the us from 10 years ago having everything we could ever have dreamed of and our reaction to it is to reach for an item filter and erase it from our game because its just an annoyance. this league mechanic imo was actually fun to play, but was picking up 4 inventories of currency from a map orb by orb actually fun? was spamming t8 atolls for harvests actually fun? if this becomes the game when the abnormal 'stuff' acquiring loses its novelty are we left with a game that is more or less fun than it was without these mechanics? we were not complaining about too many clicks in 2013, we were still having fun and the loot was exciting. its all about the expectations the game conditions into the player. I love all you people on the forums, we can disagree but still be friends and respect each other :)
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You appear to be arguing for maintenance of a perceived status quo by declaring the alternative an "abnormality". Why shouldn't the game continue to evolve and change? Change isn't necessarily bad or scary, or even unwarranted. If people are enjoying and playing longer, can it really be bad to retain some of the mechanics that made it so enjoyable? You state that it's a fact that the change is unsustainable. I do not concur and contend that it is indeed your opinion only.
Putting aside the "generation of wealth via currency" which I personally believe to be one of the worst aspects of this game, the ability for a larger proportion of players to actually access greater drops through MF (or Affliction boosting if you prefer) seems to be a very positive and well received change. Perhaps this breaks some of the existing cartel behaviour which would be most welcome. As for my previous food analogy: neither 3 star Michelin food nor Taco Bell are what I would call nice food. Nice food is simple meals made from fresh ingredients that leaves you feeling satisfied and sated. As stated before, I don't need to be starved for 3 weeks to appreciate a nice piece of grilled chicken and a fresh salad. I can eat nice food every day and be very happy and appreciative. This league feels very much like simply allowing the everyman to step up and have some nice food for a change, rather than be starved because a few elites are getting fat. Some people might be taking the league mechanic to the extreme but that's always the case. The difference this time is that more people seem to be able to play and enjoy the game as a consequence. Hooray! Regardless of the varying opinions, whatever we discuss here will have no bearing on GG. They've already made up their mind about the next two leagues and will simply implement them as they see fit. The only thing we can guarantee is that there will be something new for me to critique GG on ;) |
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"Not sure what overlap you're seeing in our points there. I'm not talking about what's 'healthy for the game' (whatever that means) at all and I'm not saying this league is unhealthy for players. "I'm sure it's a 'loot hunt game based around a trade economy' for you. But that's a statement about you. The game I play is not a 'loot hunt game' and it is not based around a trade economy. I don't know why you're asking why I don't play other games. I do play other games. I also play this one. Why are you acting as if I should be playing something with 'better gameplay', as if I've said 'POE has bad gameplay' or something? I don't think that - I wouldn't play it if I did. "I didn't say there's a problem with being excited. I said there isn't a problem not having a huge reaction when you find an item in a videogame. Because you raised the fact that you didn't jump out of your seat "like you see in compilation videos" as if that indicates a problem, and it just doesn't. People enjoy things all the time without jumping and yelling, it's normal! "The game doesn't have feelings. It'll be fine. When I'm talking about the health of human beings, that trumps 'what's good for a videogame'. Last edited by GusTheCrocodile#5954 on Feb 7, 2024, 3:43:37 AM
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" im acknowledging the objective reality that there is a perceived status quo and this league is abnormal by its standards. " it is a fact and you are wrong. the history of the game and any objective take should tell you that. I love all you people on the forums, we can disagree but still be friends and respect each other :)
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" the game you play is a loot hunt game based around a trade economy, that might not be why you personally play it and thats completely fair, you do you. but that is what this game is, that is its mission statement put forward by the developers and a sense of value in the items and their economy is essential to the success of this kind of game. this game brings joy to millions and puts food on the table of countless people. the health of this game and what is good for this game is completely tied to what is healthy and good for people. " but you were saying its unhealthy for players to be addicted to the slot machine dopamine hit, and im pointing out that this kind of content is reliant on heavily encouraging and feeding off that sort of addiction in a way that is unsustainable. you say its good that it can break that spell for some people, sure, thats true. but its also feeding that addiction for many more, pulling people away from more entertaining gameplay into ever increasing degenerate facestuffing behaviours and yes, harms or even breaks the spell of the sense of value in items which you may dismiss as important to the longevity of the game but i would argue is actually essential to its longevity. I love all you people on the forums, we can disagree but still be friends and respect each other :)
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" The status quo exists. Plain and simple. Anything against that status quo is "abnormal"....unless it BECOMES normal (which it hasn't yet). It's not about declaring anything, it is pure provable fact. It is also FACT that, in a game where the majority of the gameplay is centered around grinding for loot, making that loot so easy to get that the majority of the plyerbase is able to get all their chase gear and best gear within THREE MONTHS will eventually ruin the game. A game specifically designed to be played for a lifetime. Ever play Diablo 2 with hack mods? Ever play oldschool games with godmode and infinite ammo cheats? I can all but guarantee that your time playing in THAT environment is exponentially LESS than playing in a "normal" drop environment. I do agree that changes are good, and that changes around loot are necessary in this game. But "people enjoying and playing longer" in the short term is not a true indication of what might be good for the LONGEVITY of the game. Also, giving everybody everything they want is just provably unsustainable, it isn't a debate to be had. I'd also point out that there's no indication at all that people are even "playing longer" in this league. In fact, our only available metric Steam Charts shows a pretty standard league rolloff. |
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"A 'mission statement' is not the game. The developers' intentions are not the game. The game's financial, critical and popular successes are not the game. The game just is. It can be a 'loot hunt' game for you and simultaneously not be one for me. There is no contradiction here, no need to find and assert a singular way of looking at the world. "The McDonalds production chain brings joy to millions and puts food on the table for countless people working in restaurants, logistics, farming, advertising etc etc. Forgive me if I have some issues with the business and the product nonetheless. "Sure, okay, I think I see what you mean better there, thanks. I'm less concerned making the conditioning more sustainable, of course. "To be clear, I make no statement about the longevity of the game. I'm not concerned about the longevity of the game. GGG are doing just fine, they're big kids, they can and will look after themselves. |
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" This is quite literally a wrong statement. The game is whatever it was designed to be, regardless of how YOU play it. It was designed to be a loot-based arpg and it IS a loot-based arpg. Frankly I don't even know HOW you can play it any other way...do you just keep the same gear your character is wearing when he wakes up in the Strand? Checkers is a game where you jump and remove opponent's pieces. If YOU play checkers by trying to create the tallest skyscraper with the pieces....that doesn't change the fact that the game is the former. Your comment is objectively wrong. You might play or see things differently, but all that means is you are going AGAINST the game, it does NOT mean the game is whatever you want it to be. In fact...I just think you are straight up lying when you say you don't play a "loot-based arpg" when you play PoE. Because that would be impossible... |
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"I’m not interested in defending positions I haven’t taken. If you want to do big serious “your comment is objectively wrong” arguments, please check what has actually been said and pay attention to detail. "This is a terrible example which serves my point, not yours. Checkers is, like all games, not a design intention, nor a mission statement. Like all games, checkers is a set of rules. It makes literally no difference what was going through anyone’s head when they wrote those rules: the fact is, they are what they are now. It has a win condition, which gives players an explicit goal. Thus, successful play is measurable - indeed, checkers has been solved. Path of Exile is also a set of rules, not a mission statement, not a design intention. It makes literally no difference what was going through anyone’s head when they wrote those rules: the fact is, they are what they are now. Path of Exile has no win condition. It has no end, no overarching condition players must achieve. It does not instruct me to trade, nor to “hunt loot”. Hunting loot is just one approach you can take, a thing you can do if you want to. You can move back and forth in the corner in checkers if you want to, that does not make it a “move back and forth in the corner game” - not for me at least. "The irony in accusing me of lying by quoting me as saying something I have not said. Does it really bother you this much that someone looks at the world differently? Get some perspective, please. |
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You literally said you "do not play a loot hunt game". Can't be much clearer than that. If that is true, then you must be running around with no armor and the weapon they gave you at the strand. If you have ever picked up an item, exchanged an item, crafted an item, then you are playing a loot-based game which, no matter what your skewed sense of reality is, is WHAT this game is.
I'm not interested in arguing with you any further. I hate the way you "argue", hate the way you focus on every literal thing and fail to make any type of connection, as shown by how you go piece by piece with every response, sentence by sentence. It's a very "elementary school" way of analyzing what people write to you. In every thread its the same.., I appreciate you are one of the few that actually DOES appear to read everything that someone writes, that's great. But you REALLY need to learn to take your literal word choice issues with a grain of salt, when pointing them out offers nothing. "The game doesn't care, its an inanimate object!" "Uber bosses have no feelings, they don't care about loot!", etc. There is always something. And that is the coloring that every one of your arguments has. You actively refuse to look beyond literal wording, at the true meaning of what someone posts. And then when folks point out your "literal" words, you then go back and say you never said that. Maybe I'm being petty, who cares...I have no interest in talking to someone when every "conversation" sounds like an adult talking down to a toddler, when the adult is actually in the wrong. Last edited by jsuslak313#7615 on Feb 7, 2024, 12:01:02 PM
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