MF and POE

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stalkingjackal wrote:

Bro people would just do whatever the majority of streamers/content creators are doing.

Ziz and Steelmage are doing the T7 cemetery/abyss farm strategy and hence 90% of people are copying them. It's sooo much more profitable to drop half the mf gear and run T11 burial chambers with the same strategy - but nope, people just gonna religiously copy streamers.

I know this very well because I made 100+ divs today from flipping items related to a build a certain popular content creator recently posted about.

It's not even a very good build lol
PoE players are nothing if not predictable.

Theres 50+ content creators that have followings on twitch with hundreds of viewers. You cant say because 2 specifically are doing it that people just mirror them, even if one of them is one of the biggest POE streamers.

The results speak for themselves if you look at the different strategies and outcomes of MF\juicing. I don't need to explain this any further, I've referenced 2 examples you are completely ignoring that showcase this.

The funny thing is you even mention its better to do t11s then 7s, but it still isn't juiced t16s is it?


POE players will ruin the fun of the game for the sake of divines\hr if you let them. MF is an avenue to let players ruin the fun.

Juiced T16s will be much better, just that the dps check becomes too insane for most builds to even tackle that even without MF gear. It's along the same line as essence/beast farming on white maps a couple of leagues ago - people will go for the path of least resistance.

I def agree with players ruining the game for themselves for max profit/hr, but I don't think MF is a huge contributing factor to that. MF was a very niche thing only few solo players did outside of the affliction mechanic (and back in Kalandra league with the loot goblins).

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stalkingjackal wrote:

Juiced T16s will be much better, just that the dps check becomes too insane for most builds to even tackle that even without MF gear. It's along the same line as essence/beast farming on white maps a couple of leagues ago - people will go for the path of least resistance.

I def agree with players ruining the game for themselves for max profit/hr, but I don't think MF is a huge contributing factor to that. MF was a very niche thing only few solo players did outside of the affliction mechanic (and back in Kalandra league with the loot goblins).

Is it? Pretty sure you can do t16 maps with just a couple mill damage and any number of cleaver use mechanics. Explosions being one of them. PSN being another one.

You've sort of made my argument for me here, because if there ever was a league where damage wasn't an issue for MF builds, its this league. Tinctures with all damage can psn and psn duration mod being available on jewel means that builds that typically would struggle with MF gear don't need to because they get, you guessed it free more damage multiplier with PSN this league.


Players do ruin the game for themselves, you see tons of post on the subreddit about d\hr, no one talks about how fun what they are doing is. You see people trashing other peoples builds because POB says its not as good as theirs or that it somehow can't do maps perfectly fine, because it lacks pinnacle boss DPS, even though we all know the vast majority of characters don't farm those bosses on mapping characters.


I think MF could be reworked if they wanted to keep it for the div card or the unique multiplier instead but honestly I think its better off just bonked. If you want better loot you do more juice, you do higher tier content. You don't trade character power for loot multiplier because that just leads to a boring itemization state and players gimping themselves.

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goetzjam wrote:

The funny thing is you even mention its better to do t11s then 7s, but it still isn't juiced t16s is it?


POE players will ruin the fun of the game for the sake of divines\hr if you let them. MF is an avenue to let players ruin the fun.

Juiced t16s drop fractured bases that are worth a ton if you sell them. I did most of my farming and gearing of my current character doing t16s with no mf because it was better than farming t7s with mf. Like WAY better, not even comparable. I just happen to like playing with mf so I slapped them on for a little while before im going to take them off again.

Mf certainly doesn't ruin the fun for me, nor does it ruin the fun for all the people you have mentioned and see playing with it online. Its only you in your selfish little world that has a problem with it because you happen to find it boring. Surprise....not every player has the same thoughts as you regarding what is fun.

You know what I think is an "avenue to let players ruin the fun"? Awakened gems. Mirror gear. Mageblood. HH. Too much player power. Everything YOU want to be the only thing in the game lol.

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jsuslak313 wrote:

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goetzjam wrote:

The funny thing is you even mention its better to do t11s then 7s, but it still isn't juiced t16s is it?


POE players will ruin the fun of the game for the sake of divines\hr if you let them. MF is an avenue to let players ruin the fun.

Juiced t16s drop fractured bases that are worth a ton if you sell them. I did most of my farming and gearing of my current character doing t16s with no mf because it was better than farming t7s with mf. Like WAY better, not even comparable. I just happen to like playing with mf so I slapped them on for a little while before im going to take them off again.

Mf certainly doesn't ruin the fun for me, nor does it ruin the fun for all the people you have mentioned and see playing with it online. Its only you in your selfish little world that has a problem with it because you happen to find it boring. Surprise....not every player has the same thoughts as you regarding what is fun.

You know what I think is an "avenue to let players ruin the fun"? Awakened gems. Mirror gear. Mageblood. HH. Too much player power. Everything YOU want to be the only thing in the game lol.

Its all fun and games until you insult someone because you think I'm picking on your money making strat.


So now we've moved the goalpost to fractured bases, which people filter out mostly anyway because the time spent iding most of them isn't worth the hassle. The most expensive of fractures, like +2 arrow on spine can't be dropped, at least not from t16 maps.

MF certainly limits GGG's options when introducing further juicing mechanics. This is the first league since the conversion that they've added a mechanic that allows you to get that much more in drops and it will likely be the last if nothing else changes regarding MF. Which is my whole point, if they change MF, then we can have many juicing leagues in the future. But you stubborn players insist on gimping your characters is healthy for the game because "i only put mf gear on because i had it"

Give me a fucking break.

How does introducing stuff that allows you to make a stronger character ruin the fun? Because it simply wasn't handed to you? Like items are when you have MF equipped.

One thing that never gets addressed when it comes to MF and loot scaling is that the entire economy is based on currency, not items. And that currency is used to generate stats on items.

Back in D2 MF wasn't as big of an issue is because you weren't generating currencies to make items you want, you still physically had to find them. Obviously with parallels to finding big ticket uniques like HH/MB, you can't directly craft them (Ancient Orbs aside). If MF was correlating to more Ber Runes being dropped, the online economy of D2 would be decimated overnight and people would be up in arms. Yet somehow PoE is different?

If MF only affected items and quality of items dropped, think Loot 2.0 I think a lot of this would be solved. For example at a certain threshold you only find t2 modifiers on items. This would incentivize people to actually push into harder content for the chance of getting items that have an immediate performance gain to their character. A system like this could be pushed to a breaking point with MF gear, so going back to the original post removing the stat and pushing that gain onto harder content would be the best way to go about it.

At the end of the day, no matter what anyone wants to use an anecdotal evidence, this league has proven without doubt that having an economy fundamentally based on fungible currencies rather than set in stone, hard line items with variants on the range of rolls is a disaster that can only be fixed by scaling back the raw amount of currencies being produced on a minute by minute basis. Runewords are a perfect example of power creep, it has guaranteed stats and based on the ranges in which it rolls on completion you get to make a gameplay choice on what to do with it.

PoE is in a state where it's a pass/fail system. You either get what you need or you don't. It's the worst feeling of spending 50+ divines on an items just using the fucking crafting bench to annul the crafted mod 25 times.

At the end of the day, finding currencies gets very old very fast. I'd rather find a fucking god tier item than make it any day. Because PoE isn't a stepping stone game, you either deal with what you have on for X amount of time until you have Y amount of currencies to get the result you need/want. It's absolutely mind blowing it's fallen this far into this goldfish attention, neuron activating loot filter noise orgy.

Finally, to cap it in favor of removing MF. No one should be so jaded on HOW much they are making when the single biggest chase item in PoE, the Mirror of Kalandra (something i've personally never found in 15k+ hours since open beta) is no longer a once in a lifetime event - it's an expected outcome. This needs to change.

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1less1 wrote:

Finally, to cap it in favor of removing MF. No one should be so jaded on HOW much they are making when the single biggest chase item in PoE, the Mirror of Kalandra (something i've personally never found in 15k+ hours since open beta) is no longer a once in a lifetime event - it's an expected outcome. This needs to change.

Once again, it's not MF that's causing this. It's the league mechanic.

If you run a juiced t14+ map with 9-10k wisps and click eater altars for quant/rarity that will far outweigh even the most high end MF on low maps/no altars. Obviously if you invest enough in your char to be able to do both, then that's even better.

All these discussions about MF are gonna evaporate next league when the wildwood is gone.

"All these discussions about MF are gonna evaporate next league when the wildwood is gone."

Not that I don't agree that the Wildwood is OUT of control it really is lol. But i'm fairly certain at this point that it's a MORE multiplier on any Quantity and Rarity. When you have a base of like 80 IIQ/400 rarity that get's multiplied by many factors. This just gets amplified for groups right?

I have seen personally with a Duo setup, with zero of either getting 4-5k Wildwood Juice may equate to an extra 2-3 Divines on Average, maybe coming from a Valdo's Box. But when someone has 4-5k with MF you get much more, by a few factors easily. And then taking that further, i've been in a Duo where we got like 2.5k of each color. Maybe pulled out an additional 5 Divs raw right?

There was no 950 Winged Scarab loot explosions or 78 Divines you know?

MF is a silly stat in PoE. It doesn't add anything more than just get more stuff - which there already is way, WAY too much stuff. Talking trade league of course.

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1less1 wrote:

"All these discussions about MF are gonna evaporate next league when the wildwood is gone."

Not that I don't agree that the Wildwood is OUT of control it really is lol. But i'm fairly certain at this point that it's a MORE multiplier on any Quantity and Rarity. When you have a base of like 80 IIQ/400 rarity that get's multiplied by many factors. This just gets amplified for groups right?

I have seen personally with a Duo setup, with zero of either getting 4-5k Wildwood Juice may equate to an extra 2-3 Divines on Average, maybe coming from a Valdo's Box. But when someone has 4-5k with MF you get much more, by a few factors easily. And then taking that further, i've been in a Duo where we got like 2.5k of each color. Maybe pulled out an additional 5 Divs raw right?

There was no 950 Winged Scarab loot explosions or 78 Divines you know?

MF is a silly stat in PoE. It doesn't add anything more than just get more stuff - which there already is way, WAY too much stuff. Talking trade league of course.

Pretty sure it is a more multiplier, yea. As it turns out you don't have to run MF on T7 maps to get the maximum effect but can also just run Eater influence on a fully geared 0 IIR/IIQ character for altars.

Thing is.. no one complained about MF in TotA because it just wasn't an issue. It's in the spotlight because the league mechanic is insane. Play some regular maps with an MF setup without the wildwood + abyss strategy and see if it's that crazy

complaining on MF on MF league? its usual rotation off atlas league->mf league->craft league. and we didnt have MF league scince Sentinel(not counting Kalandra league).