MF and POE

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This. is. the. game. Players either HAVE something or they don't. Players are either dealing 10 million damage, or they are dealing 1 million damage. Players can either run juiced t16s or they can barely run white maps. Players either HAVE mirror items, or they have essence crafted ilvl 68 items. Players either chose to run a bow build or they chose to run a 2h melee build. Players either use a computer with a stellar graphics card and superfast internet, or they run a potato.

You are missing the point completely. You should be rewarded for building a strong character, not for having a "win" stat on items. Thats absurdly dumb. Remember a while back where everyone used the same fucking boring ass neck for MF?

I do its dumb as hell and GGG agreed because they nerfed it I believe twice.

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MF is nothing special. It is the same as every other mod or offering the game gives you.

No its not. Its not the same as getting more life, getting res, getting crit, its literally a multiplier on the type and amount of loot you fucking get. It is fundamentally the single most powerful mod you can get on gear. Add in a league mechanic that also is a multiplier for maps, with other multiplier for maps (sextant, scarbs, deli, ect) and you got a recipe for making something that was fine last league, absolutely out of the world dumb this league.

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You CHOOSE what you like to run as a player.

No shit, I choose to do some off meta build or to not playing MF because I think it needs removed. The downsides aren't apparent anymore. Imagined if they made you do 10% less damage for every point of quantity and slowed you by 1% for every point of rarity you had. Then you'd have actual downsides, the funny thing is YOU WOULD STILL FUCKING USE IT, thats how absurdly busted it is.

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MF is not so unique that it is an absolute requirement to play the game.

Correct you can do one of the other things in the game like bossing, o wait they made all of those rewards available from stuff that drops while MFing. Literally the only item in the game right now you can't get thats worth anything from MFing is a ring they locked behind sanctum.

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To actually BUILD a character with enough mf to even matter means you are likely not tackling the epitome of endgame content. It's a tradeoff that YOU get to decide if its for you or not.

You mean your not running feared with your MF character? Who cares if it can't run feared its printing mirrors, magebloods, headhunters, ect.

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Things that you see on youtube with hundred-divine explosions and other crazy occurrences are NOT regular "slap on mf and watch the divines rain!".

They are for anyone that plays more then a couple hours a day. You will be showered this league with stuff, MF makes it worst.

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These videos are created with specially designed teams of players that have pushed the absolute limits of mf with mirror-tier gear and seamless teamwork.

No its not. Goratha plays MF solo. Hes found tons of shit.

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Why are some players able to run eternal labs night and day, finishing in less than 5 minutes per run when it takes me 30? NERF movespeed and those builds. Why are players able to farm uber bosses with no problem, when they kill me instantly? NERF their defenses and power! Why are players able to reach the thousands in delve when I crap out at the early hundreds? NERF their builds!

I don't feel this deserves a response but I will just because it will make your point look dumb.


Dedicated lab runner or dedicated anything is fine for the game, so as long as its not a set of mods on items that multiplies everything you get.



Its called nerf the outliners and GGG does it all the time actually. The only thing they seem to never fucking nerf is the absurd concept of ranged bow build MF. Its literally gotten worst and worst and I'm sick of it.

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Maybe you should try d3/d4...it sounds like it has to offer exactly what you are looking for.

Yeah totally. What an arrogant, ignorant remark to make.

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Also, this league isn't good bc IIQ/IIR gear, it's good because the forest juice mulipliers on super-stacked juice maps - which actually, again, is easier for group play - they get yet ANOTHER advantage.

And try that shit without MF, then try it with MF. My point is if they removed MF, they could keep a mechanic like wisp so that we all got better loot when juicing, rather then only the MF people. You would be encouraged to make a strong character to find the loot, rather then needing to fall down to lower tier maps to MF.

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I understand where you are coming from - you want to only scale power and be rewarded for that. This is a weak, 1 dimensional design and seen on D3/D4.

You mean like every fucking ARPG ever? The whole point is to scale your power. They've literally added aspirational content to the game because of it.

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Strong character in POE do things like farm bosses.

Which is worthless, because your MF character can open almost any unique in the game from reliquary keys or div cards.

If they wanted to keep balance between MF and harder content, then they should have never added a way to get boss rewards outside of them. They can't unsell the div cards or keys, so I'm asking them to do the only thing they can.

Remove MF.

Magic Find gear has little to do with 'player skill' or whatever, there is ZERO IQ investment required to copy a MF, it is not a skill issue

the issue is that only SOME builds (regardless of how smart the build is made) can take full advantage - melee is shafted as per usual, but it does go deeper

any build with build enabling gloves and boots has to choose: do i play the build i want or should i switch for one that allows for ~30% IIQ.
this question uncovers how bad this design is

in theory it goes like this: get more power, get EVEN MORE power, trade that excess power for MF.

in practice if you want to play a build that is inherently incompatible with MF - you play some shit version that gets you nowhere

IIQ gem got removed for a reason - it was toxic design (yet still better than what we have now), same with rare items (yes, early POE had IIQ on pretty much every item slot, in abundance)

what we have left are few build limiting uniques. and sure, one could play half-in but that doesnt solve the build inequality. not when that 20% IIQ extra gets multiplied by order of magnitude

that undermines the strongest point of POE - build diversity and itemization. once you remove 4 item slots from a build it gets quite a lot more predictable and boring


once it gets more popular - and it is going to be, while there are other options for making currency, for Joe Doe MF is just the easiest, most accessible option - the inflation will do us what money printing of last 3 years have done - make everything worthless or crazy expensive. if 'people are given money for free' you sure have to be one of them because if not, inflation is HURTING you - same applies to MF proliferation. and finaly to build diversity - playing non-MF compatible build (ie anything non-bow) is just a bad choice then.

make MF available on RARE gear (then it is trading power for MF) or make several more MF uniques so all builds can use them or just remove this s.. alltogether

^It's clear you have no idea what you are talking about when it comes to mf so there's no point in arguing further.

Talking about something being a major problem for the game when you obviously have barely any experience with it is ridiculous.

"You should be rewarded for building a strong character, not having a "win" stat". Okay....so clearly you've never crafted gear before either? Because having a strong character is EXACTLY having "win" stats on your gear. Don't kid yourself into thinking you are some master build creator because you have a 2000 dps bow and can wreck all content.

The arguments here are moving in circles and going in and out of the same point:
OP feels like MF hurts the power fantasy, and thus it shouldn't exist. Power is all that matters. I'm so glad PoE doesn't conform to this design, and has much more nuance and value in doing things OTHER than getting the strongest weapon possible.

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sidtherat wrote:

make MF available on RARE gear (then it is trading power for MF) or make several more MF uniques so all builds can use them or just remove this s.. alltogether

Just like when everyone used this item. They nerfed it to try to bring it back in line.


Now a days people can use eyes of the greatwolf for 20% or more expensive option is the amulet base for 20%.


But that isn't an option for boots, its one option for MF.

Gloves, I've seen people opt out, but then some don't.


Rings are a no brainer as they are essentially just the most basic rares in the game, life, res, rarity and quantity.


Helm is rare with mods, back in the day we had IIQ on helms too.

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that undermines the strongest point of POE - build diversity and itemization. once you remove 4 item slots from a build it gets quite a lot more predictable and boring

Sort of my point. That and if they removed this multiplier from gear, they could do more league mechanics or other interesting things so everyone could participate.

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goetzjam wrote:

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Maybe you should try d3/d4...it sounds like it has to offer exactly what you are looking for.

Yeah totally. What an arrogant, ignorant remark to make.

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Also, this league isn't good bc IIQ/IIR gear, it's good because the forest juice mulipliers on super-stacked juice maps - which actually, again, is easier for group play - they get yet ANOTHER advantage.

And try that shit without MF, then try it with MF. My point is if they removed MF, they could keep a mechanic like wisp so that we all got better loot when juicing, rather then only the MF people. You would be encouraged to make a strong character to find the loot, rather then needing to fall down to lower tier maps to MF.

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I understand where you are coming from - you want to only scale power and be rewarded for that. This is a weak, 1 dimensional design and seen on D3/D4.

You mean like every fucking ARPG ever? The whole point is to scale your power. They've literally added aspirational content to the game because of it.

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Strong character in POE do things like farm bosses.

Which is worthless, because your MF character can open almost any unique in the game from reliquary keys or div cards.

If they wanted to keep balance between MF and harder content, then they should have never added a way to get boss rewards outside of them. They can't unsell the div cards or keys, so I'm asking them to do the only thing they can.

Remove MF.

Why don't you play mF if it's so easy? I find the people that are most upset about it, don't do it.

You will have an excuse.

And another one.

I am playing an insanely tanky build, I farm full juiced t16 with 63 quant 303 rarity.

Bossing is insanely profitable this league btw. Crying about reliquary keys is asinine. How many gg foils have YOU got from keys?

Again, you found what, 1 mageblood? Whoopdie doo.

If you don't like it, don't do it. But complaining about it without trying it is petty.

As a SINGLE example about bossing btw, Progenesis is +- 90 divs.

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Cðm wrote:

Why don't you play mF if it's so easy? I find the people that are most upset about it, don't do it.

You will have an excuse.

And another one.

I am playing an insanely tanky build, I farm full juiced t16 with 63 quant 303 rarity.

Bossing is insanely profitable this league btw. Crying about reliquary keys is asinine. How many gg foils have YOU got?

Again, you found what, 1 mageblood? Whoopdie doo.

If you don't like it, don't do it. But complaining about it without trying it is petty.

So because I don't eat shit, I can't tell you how bad it is?

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If you don't like it, don't do it. But complaining about it without trying it is petty.

I've done it in the past. I'm sure its just as fucking boring as it was then. I'm in a guild with people that do it, in discord calls with people that do it. I know whats happening and I choose not to eat the shit. If you eat the shit and enjoy it, thats on you. I'm telling the devs I don't wanna eat the shit.

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goetzjam wrote:

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Cðm wrote:

Why don't you play mF if it's so easy? I find the people that are most upset about it, don't do it.

You will have an excuse.

And another one.

I am playing an insanely tanky build, I farm full juiced t16 with 63 quant 303 rarity.

Bossing is insanely profitable this league btw. Crying about reliquary keys is asinine. How many gg foils have YOU got?

Again, you found what, 1 mageblood? Whoopdie doo.

If you don't like it, don't do it. But complaining about it without trying it is petty.

So because I don't eat shit, I can't tell you how bad it is?

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If you don't like it, don't do it. But complaining about it without trying it is petty.

I've done it in the past. I'm sure its just as fucking boring as it was then. I'm in a guild with people that do it, in discord calls with people that do it. I know whats happening and I choose not to eat the shit. If you eat the shit and enjoy it, thats on you. I'm telling the devs I don't wanna eat the shit.

[Removed by Support]

It's like saying a porterhouse is shit without ever trying one. Your lack of experience diminishes the value of your input.

Again, sounds like d3 is more your style. Go farm 1 dimensional scaling gr's.

That is what you are saying you want without saying it.

"mY fRiEnDs FaRm It"

Ok?

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Bossing is insanely profitable this league btw. Crying about reliquary keys is asinine. How many gg foils have YOU got?

it kinda isnt

the numbers besides prices are higher. but thats because people have A LOT more numbers to spend

the relative buying power for bossing is most likely the lowest it has ever been. MF character does not need boss drops, more and more people switch to MF so the demand will go down even more

if one good MF map on average nets 5-10 RAW Div drops no wonder boss drops got a lot higher numbers

but if you do the buying power comparison league per league, pretty much every non-MF activity besides flipping is worse due to sheer currency vomit

inflation is a b..

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goetzjam wrote:

I've done it in the past. I'm sure its just as fucking boring as it was then. I'm in a guild with people that do it, in discord calls with people that do it. I know whats happening and I choose not to eat the shit. If you eat the shit and enjoy it, thats on you. I'm telling the devs I don't wanna eat the shit.

How can you not see that this is exactly what you AREN'T doing?!!!! You aren't saying YOU don't wanna eat it, you are saying everyone else shouldn't be ABLE to eat it if they want to, because YOU find it boring.

You keep backing yourself into corners, while offering no real defense as to why mf is ACTUALLY bad. Your examples are wrong. You've been shown actual examples of why you are wrong, and you keep defaulting to "It's Boring, I don't want it" as your defense.

You are right, if I and others want to eat it then that is OUR choice, not yours. It doesn't suddenly become bad game design because you happen to find it boring.

MF, the kind of mf everyone can do if they want to, is not game-breaking. It is a single strategy people might use to gather currency to craft or buy better gear, but there are many other strategies that work just as well. Mf at its extremes, party play and mirror tier gear, is pretty awesome. BUT it also has a buy-in cost that is astronomically high. Anything that requires that amount of investment SHOULD be powerful at what it does.