Overwhelm on enemies should not give 300% more damage against players
" I'm sorry if it feels like I'm yelling, I'm not really, it does feel like you are though ^^ I like the points being brought up but I don't feel like my position has changed either. I feel I have said all I wanted. It is up to GGG to decide on what to do. hi <3 I stream at twitch.tv/sjatar_
|
|
|
I apologize....yelling was the wrong word. It was me using the caps lol
I don't use caps to yell, I use them to emphasize certain words like I might if I was actually talking to you. Because otherwise the sentence doesn't read the same way. If I wanted to yell, I would cap the whole sentence I'm not yelling either, but I am especially passionate when I come across numbers being thrown around that don't highlight the "true" interactions. Numbers can be taken in many different contexts, and when taken in isolation they tell a very narrow story that can be spun in various misleading ways. I find this talk about "300% more damage" to be equal to other complaints when people find fault with the "market value" of items. "Blah blah item shouldn't be worth 1c!". Sure, that number exists and its true that the item is trading for 1c, but you pull it completely out of all the other context surrounding it just to suit your argument. Last edited by jsuslak313#7615 on Jan 7, 2024, 9:37:06 PM
|
|
|
The bad thing about monster overwhelm is that it complicates the game ("how to make working defenses") without adding good value in return. I disagree with this. This kind of thing is one of the reasons why the discrepancy between those-who-know and those-who-dont-know is so (IMO unnecessarily) large. I dont think this is good. So base defensive principles shouldnt be conceptually inferior to "weird stuff".
-- "You can look up monster armour values on poedb. And there is the map mod 20%-40% base. And the monster mods: https://www.poewiki.net/wiki/Monster_modifiers up to 65% per monster. So monsters can have upto the max of 90% even without Armour. No wonder it's lost, it's in the middle of the jungle! Last edited by Zrevnur#2026 on Jan 8, 2024, 2:04:17 PM
|
|
" How is it weird or complicated? It's the exact same thing as elemental pierce, except for physical damage. The only difference being it can't go negative. Are you saying that any special mod that affects you or monster defenses is too complicated to exist in the game? I think its a much more boring design if every mod was just "x deals 30% more y damage" Last edited by jsuslak313#7615 on Jan 8, 2024, 2:23:26 PM
|
|
"This is not about whether the mod is complicated to understand or not. Its about (I thought I clearly wrote that?) the effect of the existence of this mod on character building. You make simple "tanky" Juggernaut build. You get wrecked by random mobs with this mod. I dont think this is good for the game. Most especially not helpful for making it (character making) understandable for new players. IMO base defense mechanics should be reliable without being inferior to using weird stuff (phys-taken-as etc). And its not "overwhelm" which is (overly) "weird" but the things you can do to outbuild monsters with "overwhelm". No wonder it's lost, it's in the middle of the jungle!
|
|
|
^that wasn't clear in your post, but it still doesn't really make sense in PoE.
PoE defenses have ALWAYS been multi-layered. You don't just get block or armour or evasion or suppression etc. You get multiple layers that do multiple different things. To have a problem with this is to have a problem with the fundamental design of the game. I guess that's fine but "Overwhelm" as a mechanic does nothing different than ANYTHING else that is in the game. Base defenses ARE reliable. If you are a tanky character with 90% (true 90%) physical reduction and you run into an Overwhelm mob....you are STILL taking 60% less damage than your non-tanky counterparts. How is that not reliable? Thats like saying having 90% fire resistance and running into a lightning mod is unfair or "weird" because your extended fire resistance isn't helping. |
|
" I know that you are jokingly saying that, but even then that person could be using Tempered by War use an Avian Twins Talisman, or run Divine Flesh etc. I know you know that, but for the sake of the conversation I just want to say there's so many tools available and saying "I gotz the resistance, I'm done" is short-sighted. Ugh, this thread.. :D The opposite of knowledge is not illiteracy, but the illusion of knowledge.
|
|
"Logically I would distinct between shifts and layers. "Unfortunately large parts of the "fundamental design" of the game seems to be "complicated for the sake of complicated". And I do dislike this. Even made an own thread about it not so long ago. "I think this is too simple a statement. "Unfortunately not properly. Like there is supposedly this exile which ignores Evasion. "Bigger issue likely are magic packs with this mod. For the Jugger example taking 40% instead of 10% is the biggest hole in defenses. And if you get that on a bad mob (Soul Eater) it can easily destroy such a Jugger. "This is not about "unfair" or Overwhelm being "weird". Already wrote that twice. See above. No wonder it's lost, it's in the middle of the jungle!
|
|
" If your Juggernaut only has 40% physical damage reduction before Overwhelm you really need to remember to turn Determination on. Seriously, a Juggernaut will never only have 40% PDR if built correctly. The opposite of knowledge is not illiteracy, but the illusion of knowledge. Last edited by ArtCrusade#4438 on Jan 8, 2024, 3:09:53 PM
|
|
""No one" actually reads what I write... I was assuming 90% PDR. Its 40%/10% "taken". No wonder it's lost, it's in the middle of the jungle!
|
|
