Overwhelm on enemies should not give 300% more damage against players

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jsuslak313 wrote:

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SerialF wrote:

cant believe people are actually defending this mod. but then again, if the argument is as long as there is one counterplay in the game, it s fine then sure, makes the most boring game alive, everything is fine. after all, just blow up your screen from a distance and you can even handle 100% overwhelm expedition np. and in case of expedition at least you chose that mod. same as the less regen map mod. random overwhelm you cant chose it. so plz send me a video of you checking all mods on a rare before even fighting one of them ;)

Proper build doesn't require you to do that...thats the point. Random overwhelm is not 100%, and it's up to you to layer your defenses so that one mod doesn't immediately kill you. If mobs had "ignore physical reduction", I might be singing a different tune but that just isn't the case.

so you re ok with a 300% more damage mod as long as there is the most boring counter play possible wich is phys taken as, ok dokey.
you see no problem exchangin hundred of items wich have armour related stats to "5" mod/items and i barely exagerate that have phys taken as.
noone could call that more interesting or complex but whatever.

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jsuslak313 wrote:

I just fundamentally don't see it as weird or even all that complicated.

Obviously this is subjective. And its not complicated from the POV of a knowledgeable player. But its still (IMO pointlessly) more complicated than it needs to be. And the "weird" doesnt refer to understanding if you know. It refers to intuitively understanding (or not). And phys-taken-as is (IMO) quite "weird" in this. You really need to understand the damage calculation details to understand how much (if at all) this helps. So I dont think this should the baseline staple solution for diminishing phys damage from hits. And "Overwhelm" empowers this mechanic.

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jsuslak313 wrote:

There are a few questions ANY player should ask themselves when they create a build (defensive)
1) How do I mitigate physical / elemental damage?
2) How do I recover from the damage I take?
3) How can I avoid damage altogether (optional)?
4) What am I weak to / what can enemies do to my defenses?

That may be your POV. My POV is that simple fluff based builds should be at least almost as good as builds using "weird" things for normal gameplay. IMO they should be working build archetypes. (Evasion is actually worse currently than this though. But issue is the same in principle.)

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jsuslak313 wrote:

Spoiler

These are just staple questions that ANY arpg demands answers to in a build. This whole "weirdification" thing ONLY occurs because players ignore #4. You can't just focus on your own defenses, you ALSO need to be aware of what can pierce or lower your defenses. This isn't weird at all: it is basically a part of every single rpg.

#4 is the thing that players, both new and experienced, just completely ignore and yet it is the single most important thing to consider imo. People rely completely on their potions, run into a mob that sucks potion charges, and then complain that this particular mod is OP and needs to be removed. No....you need to be aware that this is a possibility in the game and not rely on ONE mechanic.

We KNOW that overwhelm exists. We also KNOW that armour is great against small/mid hits but isn't terribly reliable against large hits. So we also take the other mitigation available to us: endurance charges, phys as, etc. Hell, we also learn that we need movement skills to avoid big enemy hits and we learn what to avoid.

My POV here is about how the game should be.

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jsuslak313 wrote:

None of this is WEIRD. None of this is remotely complicated when you just stop and think about it.

Maybe try to look at it from the POV of a new player that doesnt know all the mechanics.

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jsuslak313 wrote:

It's like fighting Sirus without being immune to corrupted blood: you need to learn what the game can do to you and plan for it. Or don't.

Thats the current state. And part of my complaint here is that this "need to learn" should be reduced.

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jsuslak313 wrote:

Furthermore, the game NEEDS monster mods that do these things.

They dont need "Overwhelm". Armour in principle is already designed to be overwhelmed by larger hits. Or they could do "50% armour penetration". That would make more sense to player and be more fluffy. It would also be better to counter. Still "arms race" issue though.

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jsuslak313 wrote:

Monsters that do special things like steal flask charges, turn off or lower our regen, curse us, overwhelm our armour, etc. makes for interesting gameplay.

I completely disagree with absolute unresistable effects.

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jsuslak313 wrote:

It requires extra thought on our part when we build our character, and it adds DEPTH to the game.

You are looking at this from a player centric game. Im looking at this from an immersion POV. Super powerful absolute monster mods dont make sense. If they do exist why dont opponents and NPCs make smart use of monsters with them? Why doesnt that Soul Eater mob in act 8 take out the gods and become the godslayer? It makes no sense for random mobs to have such power.