Overwhelm on enemies should not give 300% more damage against players
" Well man, you're supposed to work with the tools given, if they took these tools away with nothing in return hc is going to be toxic again with everyone stacking block and 7500 hp. plzno... Think back to when everyone wanted harvest itemized and how it was put into place. |
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" Sooo....you can basically get it everywhere then lol? You literally named every single possible piece of gear except jewelry and weapons. That's the opposite of limiting...Pigeonholing to you means having to make choices about what mods to get on your gear? That is the essence of gearing and build creation....you choose the gear mods, passives, and whatever else that makes your build function the way you want it to. If you DON'T want to use what the game offers you to mitigate the exact thing you are complaining about...then that's on you, not poor game design. It's also not pigeonholing nor is it build limiting: its building proper defenses based on your choices or NOT building proper defenses and being careful with your playstyle instead. This whole thread is like complaining about needing to roll ES gear if you want to build an ES character. It's build limiting because you can't roll full offense mods and armour while still getting ES numbers!!! Last edited by jsuslak313#7615 on Jan 6, 2024, 11:41:27 PM
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" Not sure why you take that tone, I think a mod on enemies that give them 300% more damage is out of place is all. Again if this was about a build I'm making I'd take this advice. But this is just derailing it. hi <3 I stream at twitch.tv/sjatar_
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The game has good defensive tools right now, the only issue is spells when you play left side of tree, particularly slow hitting 2h slam builds. It is able to be worked around with fourth vow xibaqua.
Other than dd, we have tools for every situation right now. I'd prefer it not to change. Suppression being too strong kind of keeps people from really playing some left tree stuff but its "ok". The bigger issue in build diversity is bow and proj builds being able to utilize rage/berserk so easily. |
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" Again this is a feedback and suggestion thread. It's feedback and suggestions on the tools given. I'm not here to get advice on build making I feel I'm proficient at that and also to give feedback about a mod that I think is weirdly strong. hi <3 I stream at twitch.tv/sjatar_
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" Well to your original point directly...I don't really see the problem. It's only 300% more damage if you have maximized your defenses already, so even WITH that 300% more, you are still mitigating 60% of the overall damage which is rather high. Your assessment focuses on a misleading statistic and ignores the fact that your investment into physical mitigation is NOT going to waste by any means and is still in fact STRONGER if you can get it to a consistent 90% no matter what overwhelm does. Truth be told, ANY defensive mechanic that works on %'s will have a HIGHER negative effect if you have a HIGHER starting point. It's just the nature of how %'s work. And yet, the higher your starting point is the more overall mitigation you'll STILL have when compared to someone who starts with less. There's also, as you and others have pointed out, OTHER layers of mitigation of the SAME damage type that you can stack to push your actual physical mitigation pretty darn high. That's probably why overwhelm is 30% whereas elemental weakness curse / reduced max resists is less. This is because there are more ways to mitigate physical damage than there are for elemental outside of pretty niche mechanics. So what's the problem here? There's nothing wrong as far as I can see. Overwhelm is a stronger defensive "pierce" because we as the player have more ways to defend against it rather cheaply. |
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" Yes, this is the feedback forum. No, that doesn't mean that people cannot comment on the examples you give. When your character has 90% physical damage reduction through whatever means, then indeed your character will only mitigate 60% of the physical hit damage. But that is like complaining that Shaper balls penetrate 20% of your cold resistance, meaning that a normal character will mitigate 55% instead of 75% of the hit damage. Yes, the math is correct. But that isn't a problem when you build a character that has more than one dimension. You shouldn't only rely on your cold resistance to take a hit like that, but have secondary or tertiary layers on top. E.g. for the cold hit you'd also have spell suppression, Divine Flesh, higher maximum resistance, offset damage taken (Petrified Blood, Progenesis), or other sources of less damage taken (Enfeeble, Sap, Fortify..). The game gives you all the tools to make your character as tanky or as squishy as you'd like, and while every opportunity comes at a cost, so does not picking it. Overwhelm only ever appears on a few monsters. It exists so that people don't just rely on one single mechanic to build their characters, but branch out. People bring up Physical taken as for your example because it's one of the most accessible ones. If you don't like it, there are others I listed. That is to say, there's no need to reduce complexity. The opposite of knowledge is not illiteracy, but the illusion of knowledge. Last edited by ArtCrusade#4438 on Jan 7, 2024, 2:36:31 PM
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Its not 300% more damage if you have phys taken as, if youre playing pf with phys immunity it doesnt even effect you. just have 12 on chest and 14 on helmet is enough to not get 1 tapped. you can also run arctic armour if you want a bit more help with it. and it also gives you freeze immunity and more mitigation from the fire youre moving from phys.
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" Not sure if you use caps because you think I don't understand or because you want to make the argument more heated, I understand what you are saying, we just have different opinions ^^ I feel overwhelm should not cause large surprise spikes in damage on characters that have a large investment into mitigation and should reliably not take a lot of physical damage. "Overwhelm is a stronger defensive "pierce" because we as the player have more ways to defend against it rather cheaply." Do you mean ways to defend against overwhelm or physical damage in general? Because a player can quite easily get 90% mitigation with armour against smaller phys hits, overwhelm often represents 300% more damage and that is the key issue. The damage mitigation options for physical damage is plenty and I feel fine in balance. I think the point of already having high mitigation is valid. But I don't think a mod should represent a 300% more damage multiplier ever no matter how much mitigation a character has after the fact. A character should feel tanky against physical damage if they have invested into physical mitigation. Overwhelm undermines that assumption. hi <3 I stream at twitch.tv/sjatar_
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The same thing happens to builds that run 90 max res on monsters with penetration, they have to shift ele to chaos, or mitigate it with eternal damnation.
Its really no different. Its a layer of defensive complication that you get better at as you learn. Youre asking them to change the game and make it more simple. Plz no |
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