Do defences even matter anymore?

Rant:
I decided to spec to juggernaut this league and try out the new tec slam.

Thought I could combine decent damage with good survivability (cuz juggernaut) so I specd into Untiring and Unbreakable while overcapping resists, stacking armor and capping chaos res. HUGE MISTAKE

I could get a fkton of regen, recoup, instaleech, auras and put Jesus' Christ loincloth on me, while also risking getting an army of wisp empowered rare mobs I can't kill fast enough into my face cuz of ZDPS but I don't want to do 5 maps per hour.

So the tradeoff of a balance between defence and offence is getting random oneshots from things sometimes I can't even see.

Solution?
I just went full damage and I had a good time. Bossing and mapping finally feels good. Might even spec into Berserker and have an even better time.

GOING FULL RE ON DPS AND 6 PORTALS ARE THE REAL DEFENCES

Lets see:

Your jugg has... armor for a defensive layer and.... some res.

No block, no eva, no es, no suppression....

Your only source of outside defense is... molten shell on cwdt


What are you expecting from this build?

Your juggernaut was made out of paper dude lol yo even a deadeye had more defenses.

I did a full setup on your char the only thing you had was resist and a small chunk of armor which doesn't do anything vs elemental damage?

What is your armor going to do versus spells? Where's your suppression?

Where's your secondary layers of resist? Molten shell on cast damage taken doesn't do anything versus a barrage of elemental damage your shell isn't going to protect you during that.

There's so many things dude lol

"

Chickenwink wrote:

Lets see:

Your jugg has... armor for a defensive layer and.... some res.

No block, no eva, no es, no suppression....

Your only source of outside defense is... molten shell on cwdt


What are you expecting from this build?

Benefit of the doubt...he DID say in his post that he "respecced" into his current build. So you are judging him based on his own admittance of changes AWAY from defenses. Also, as a Jugg he doesn't need ANY of the things you told him to get. I have never build a Jugg with block, eva, es, or suppression. Juggs go for armor, regen, endurance charges, and phys as elemental and tank like...juggs.

"

jsuslak313 wrote:

"

Chickenwink wrote:

Lets see:

Your jugg has... armor for a defensive layer and.... some res.

No block, no eva, no es, no suppression....

Your only source of outside defense is... molten shell on cwdt


What are you expecting from this build?

Benefit of the doubt...he DID say in his post that he "respecced" into his current build. So you are judging him based on his own admittance of changes AWAY from defenses. Also, as a Jugg he doesn't need ANY of the things you told him to get. I have never build a Jugg with block, eva, es, or suppression. Juggs go for armor, regen, endurance charges, and phys as elemental and tank like...juggs.

Ive made jugg volcanic fissure in the past. Used block just fine. His build can fit any of those in. But has chosen not to, and instead whine about getting one shot and then titling his post questioning defenses...

When he has none.

He doesnt even have phys taken as ele mod on any of their gear and has chosen to not scale off endurance charges either think they only went for a single charge more so they cap at 4. Also avoided the endurance ascendancy unrelenting and when with Unstoppable...???

^again...you are seeing his build AFTER he removed whatever defenses he WAS running. As he himself stated: "Solution? I went full dps". He changed his build from whatever defensive layering he INITIALLY had.

Of course you CAN use block as a Jugg but its totally unnecessary. And also does NOTHING vs. 1shots. I'm sure you know that...


The "classic" super defensive juggernaut does not use evasion, block, es, or suppression. It is "almost" exclusively a high life, high armor, high phys mitigation class. Resistances above max is usually the way to mitigate elemental damage thanks to the nodes close to the starting point. Plus running immortal call with all those extra endurance charges for long duration elemental damage reduction. I'm SURE there are exceptions, but it is certainly not the norm to load all of those other defensive layers onto a juggernaut because its unnecessary and damage is already difficult to build.


I'm not exactly defending the OP; we just can't judge him based on where his Jugg is NOW because he CHANGED the build to focus more on offense as per his own post.

Even a VERY basic amount of life, armour, and resists on a Jugg with Unflinching, Unrelenting, and unbreakable and 7 endurance charges nets you substantial mitigation.

I just created a totally empty build in PoB with no passive tree, and set armour to 60k, life to 6k, and resistances to 78 (easily obtainable) with those three ascendancy passives and you are already getting over 20k ehp vs all damage types. Adding block on top of that protects against a lot of small hits but does nothing against 1shots.

Throw some actual regen in the mix, plus defensive skills like molten shell and/or immortal call and you get a SERIOUSLY tanky juggernaut....with no evasion, suppression, block, es, or any other layers other than armor life and endurance. Ex: Add a level 1 immortal call into the mix and the ehp vs all damage jumps almost 4x higher.

6k life, 60k armor, 78 resists, 7 endurance charges, lvl 1 immortal call, NO passives = 300k ehp, with an incredibly healthy spread of spike damage mitigation ranging from 50k elemental to 80k physical.

"

jsuslak313 wrote:

Even a VERY basic amount of life, armour, and resists on a Jugg with Unflinching, Unrelenting, and unbreakable and 7 endurance charges nets you substantial mitigation.

I just created a totally empty build in PoB with no passive tree, and set armour to 60k, life to 6k, and resistances to 78 (easily obtainable) with those three ascendancy passives and you are already getting over 20k ehp vs all damage types. Adding block on top of that protects against a lot of small hits but does nothing against 1shots.

Throw some actual regen in the mix, plus defensive skills like molten shell and/or immortal call and you get a SERIOUSLY tanky juggernaut....with no evasion, suppression, block, es, or any other layers other than armor life and endurance

The point is he has none of that, nor has he scaled his defensives correctly.

But look at the title of the post. "Defenses even matter anymore?"


Yea they do, they matter if you actually have them. Which the OP does not. He wants to go on a tirade after he goes glass and scales an ascendancy in a silly way go ahead.

Defenses matter, are not the issue nor are they even present. As for building defensive layers on Jugg all the ones I listed can and HAVE been done, these are not alien and its silly to suggest they weren't. Previously RF was played ON Jugg as meta. And that had cap block and MASSIVE ES, the same build still works this league. Glacial hammer and its transfigure variant uses block, this league one of my friends is playing it and they run mage bane (spell suppress).

These layers are used in Jugg. And its not like they are rare either.

The OP is playing a build that has a bunch of defense scaling available to it, but wants to run ... not tanky? is their issue. And prior to their posting they probably did not scale it correctly the first time around. And then posted this little number in the feedback section.

"

Which the OP does not. He wants to go on a tirade after he goes glass and scales an ascendancy in a silly way go ahead.

HE HAD THOSE, BUT SPECCED OUT OF THEM.

WHAT YOU ARE LOOKING AT IS THE BUILD WHERE HE SPECCED OUT OF DEFENSES.

HE DOES NOT RUN THE DEFENSES NOW. HE USED TO, BUT THEY DID NOT WORK.

Left side of the tree ascendancies are kind of out of touch with the defenses required these days in my opinion. Spell suppression is just too far away to justify the travel and still require t1 suppression gear. Block is good if you can cap it, but that is only realistic on guardian or again your spending too much for it. Recover on block shields are a good option but are not really able to be acquired until long after you needed them. That only leaves leaning on unique items/jewels to fill the huge gaps.