10% XP penalty death is rought now with 5 ways nerf

10% xp loss on death has always been rough. 5 ways was just an easy way for guarantee lv100.

XP loss is one of the worst death penalties ever existed. Literally there are 10 other ways they can punish players with other than losing portal which is already punishing enough but they force the wrost one possible. xp loss is backwards progress. People don't like progressing backwards. The game is supposed to be fun but once you die to some unavoidable unfair death it just wipes away all the fun and enjoyment of the game.

XP is crucial to progress. If you keep losing xp you will never level up. Why force it when there is already a mode called Hardcore where death matters? If someone wants to give cutting edge performance all the time just play HC. SC should have a different way to punish death (if losing portal is not enough already).

"

Ispita wrote:

10% xp loss on death has always been rough. 5 ways was just an easy way for guarantee lv100.

XP loss is one of the worst death penalties ever existed. Literally there are 10 other ways they can punish players with other than losing portal which is already punishing enough but they force the wrost one possible. xp loss is backwards progress. People don't like progressing backwards. The game is supposed to be fun but once you die to some unavoidable unfair death it just wipes away all the fun and enjoyment of the game.

XP is crucial to progress. If you keep losing xp you will never level up. Why force it when there is already a mode called Hardcore where death matters? If someone wants to give cutting edge performance all the time just play HC. SC should have a different way to punish death (if losing portal is not enough already).

plz names those 10 other options excluding portal loss

btw if you say "just reduced exp gained for exp amount of exp or time" its a much much worse option

its much worse not becuase of the numbers of raw exp you lose,but because of the psychological effect it will induces

with 10% instant loss the punishment is basicly over and done as soon as you hit the respawn button

with reducing gained exp players would feel punished the whole time beacause they gain less or nothing
it would actually stop ppl from playing until the timer runs out or "forever" if its a fixed amount

*edit

breaking items with a "repair" cost is either dangerous,because it could "brick" a char when you are unable to pay the repair or the cost would be so trivial that it has the same problem as just portal loss

simply not enough for players to even care


the whole point of a penalty is that you dont like or even hate it,its the only way to really have an effect

"

btw if you say "just reduced exp gained for exp amount of exp or time" its a much much worse option

its much worse not becuase of the numbers of raw exp you lose,but because of the psychological effect it will induces

What psychological effect are you talking about?

"

with 10% instant loss the punishment is basicly over and done as soon as you hit the respawn button

Just because it is over fast does not mean it is rightful lol. And it is not over you have to deal with the repercussions of constantly losing progress and having held back.

"

with reducing gained exp players would feel punished the whole time beacause they gain less or nothing
it would actually stop ppl from playing until the timer runs out or "forever" if its a fixed amount

They don't need to reduce the xp gain further. Do you realise that dying on 70 lv when a tier 1 map gives you 40% xp is not the same as dying on 96+ when 10 tier 16 maps gives you 10% xp? Yet you lose the same flat 10%. Absolutely has to be proportional to the xp/h.

"

breaking items with a "repair" cost is either dangerous,because it could "brick" a char when you are unable to pay the repair or the cost would be so trivial that it has the same problem as just portal loss

simply not enough for players to even care

They can make it work and balance it properly.

"

the whole point of a penalty is that you dont like or even hate it,its the only way to really have an effect

The point of the penalty is to teach players a lesson but what lesson when the game is far too rippy and there is no justice in any of the deaths. It is way too easy to die to pretty much anything. The whole game is made for players to suffer and die repeatedly. Balance in this game (player vs monsters) is way too off at this point. Hard to take seriously and learn from any of the mistakes when you do know they are intentionally killing you and there is no way you could have avoided that death.

Losing progress is bad. You can make people suffer other ways and yes losing portals is already more than enough. You can't just die infinitely because you brick the maps/keys. The problem with xp loss is that it ruins mood and makes you want to not play. That is not how you should make your players feel. It is a game it should be fun not misery.

When you log in to play and you have 40% xp and you die 3 times to some BS then you realise you are down to 10% it would have been better to not log in to play at all and just stay offline. You would have had more progress if you didn't bother logging in to progress. You realise xp loss death penalty is fundamentally flawed design.

Have you ever had to kill a boss when you were close to level up and you couldn't kill the boss i.e. lost the key and lost 50-60% xp too? Or just don't attempt anything but on 0% xp? Simply just were in the mood to kill some bosses but it is too risky to attempt before level up? So you have to delay? Do you feel how limiting factor is that?

Xp loss has a lot more downsides and fix nothing in the game. Poe2 won't be any more successful if they stick to xp loss just saying. If they really want to then they have to make the xp recoverable or at least my idea is to snapshot the progress and significantly increase the xp gain until the point you were to help you catch back up fast. Let's say you are on 50% xp you die down to 30%. As long as you reach 50% xp again your xp gain is like 300% increased to help you catch up where you left off.

They need to make it better because right now it is lazy and uninspiring.

"

Echothesis wrote:

...But if you actually do level to 100 "during week one in both normal league and SSF without any exp services at all", you are far from lots of people, you are elite of the elite, knowing in advance how to:

1) Select income/trading strategy based on your current build capabilities.
2) Craft/buy your gear correctly to minimize impact of above-mentioned damage spikes all the way during leveling.
3) Overstack defenses when approaching levels 95+
4) Choose/roll your content correctly, to theorycraft a balance between loot and risk of dying.

That sounds like... how it should be... doesn't it?

you still didnt name any of these atleast 10 other options


its pretty hard to explain it in english (3rd language)

instant loss of 10% means the punishment is over after respawn
you can reenter the map or what ever you were doing and gain the same amount you got before the deaths

yes
you lost exp and have to gain it again,but thats it

if you dont lose but gain less exp or no exp for some time,it changes the "value" of the content you are running
you gain less than before which is a lot more demotivating to play

im not saying the instant loss has no effect,but the effect is much lower for the avg player regardless of the overall exp loss beeing the same or not


for the repair

poes currency systems makes it problematic to balance it,it will either be cheap and irrelevant or include the risk of bricking a charr when you are unable to pay the repair (i.e. you could simply be out of regret orbs even though you have plenty of other orbs)

exp simply is tghe best option and its fair
you cant delevel and you cant lose gear/brick gear,you will never lose power only progress to the next level

"

ciel289 wrote:

you still didnt name any of these atleast 10 other options

I don't have to list anything. It is not my job to solve it it is theirs but there are already some mentioned and you can just look around what other games do. Not many do xp loss and guess why...

Here are some just top of my head: repair is an obvious one, xp loss recoverable some way. Just slay the monster that killed you which would recover the entire xp you lost. Make the xp loss on death popportional to the xp/ hour. The one I came up with is the snapshot your highest xp% on the actual level and give you a big boost until you catch up to that point again. Portal loss is one of the punishment as well which we already have. That is atleast 5.

Here are 2 other things which aren't really death penalty but worth mentioning is that put an npc in which locks your xp for the next x amount of time and no matter if you die you would not lose xp until the timer expires. This would instantly make bossing better.

The other is just to entirely lock your xp at an npc and gain no xp but in return you would have increased rarity and quantity of items drop. It is for those who wouldn't care about gaining xp any further because they just die anyway but want to make use of the xp they would otherwise lose.

If I sit here for any longer I could come up with more options. The sky is the limit.

Edit. I just figured out something else which is probably a lot more annoying but can't help myself so here it is:

When you die you are placed in a jail cell of some sort where you either wait for a timer to expire or there is like a maze you can attempt to get out of. If you do you can get back to do whatever you were doing. Ultimately it would make you lose time so you would have to think twice about dying repeatedly.

Guys, guys... seriously... the game is an ARPG... created by a company called GRINDING Gear Games. The game is supposed to be a grind. You're not supposed to have a max level character in 5 days, or 7 days if you level through the acts slowly. Level 100 is supposed to feel like an accomplishment. The gameplay loop is supposed to last for months. That is why there isn't a new league every week.

You are supposed to get the feeling of accomplishment when you finally get that build just right, and hit that magic level of 100. Why play a game if you want to cheese yourself to the end too quickly.

Just enjoy the grind. Enjoy the game. Have fun. Get rewarded for the hard work you've put in.

"

Cyzax wrote:

"

Echothesis wrote:

...But if you actually do level to 100 "during week one in both normal league and SSF without any exp services at all", you are far from lots of people, you are elite of the elite, knowing in advance how to:

1) Select income/trading strategy based on your current build capabilities.
2) Craft/buy your gear correctly to minimize impact of above-mentioned damage spikes all the way during leveling.
3) Overstack defenses when approaching levels 95+
4) Choose/roll your content correctly, to theorycraft a balance between loot and risk of dying.

That sounds like... how it should be... doesn't it?

It sounds more simple than it works. Thanks to possibility of unavoidable random huge damage spikes that can occur even in "safer" content, from random AN mobs. Which scale without any telegraphing of course, you know it is true, unless you've never met soul eater and hasted. So "overstack" means to squeeze maximum potential from every item modifier and passive point just to die rarely enough to be able to push through level 99.

Omen of Amelioration
Will be Consumed when you Die
to prevent 75% of Experience loss

:D

"

Aderahl wrote:

Omen of Amelioration
Will be Consumed when you Die
to prevent 75% of Experience loss

:D

I have posted this concept for many years with the hope that it would finally be picked up by GGG.

Good on you GGG for finally listening, My greatest fear with the coming patch is that you had not included this modifier for which this entire concept was made for.

"

SilentSymphony wrote:

I posted a solution to the exp loss countless times but instead of using that idea to resolve peoples issues they used it in the upcoming league mechanic for something they'll probably just delete from the game because people hate it for taking up slots in their inventory.

If it saved you from exp-loss then things might be a bit different on that "taking up space" part.

Unless im wrong and they actually used the physical-held-in-inventory-items by adding "x% reduced exp lost on death" effect to the list of things these objects.

You can do so much better GGG but if you have no more idea's to butcher i don't suspect that you will.

Never happier to be wrong :)