Mandatory ruthless in poe2 will be massive fail..

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Ivanovv83 wrote:

It will totally kill any hype for the new game.

it already did for me. before exilecon i was so looking forward to poe 2. now not so much

Have any of you actually watched the demo? They had blue items, weapons with+1 and +2 to gems and nothing else, skills with 0 support gems (spark had pierce but that's - for DMG) and we dont know anything about skill tree. The game will not be like that. You can chill.

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Phrazz wrote:

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1453R wrote:

Kripparian found a semi-decent spear in his forty-five minutes of Huntress gameplay and went from Struggle Bussing to two-tapping most white critters when he didn't one-tap the weaker ones.

What do you actually think Ruthless is? Kripp is "two-tapping" most rares there, and has decent gear.

You're speaking as if you KNOW the progression curve. You're speaking as if you KNOW the scarcity level of gear. You're speaking as if you KNOW how powerful or deterministic crafting will be. Newsflash: You don't know, you saw the same ExileCon as everyone else.

You can't deny that there are several links between PoE 2 and Ruthless when it comes to design and balance. Gold for vendors, one portal bosses, no crafting bench, "no" movement skills, overall slowed down game. Hell, they even stated in several interviews that Ruthless has been a testing ground for PoE 2.

The one that needs to "chill" here is you. People are allowed to be skeptical, because most of them are actually PoE players - waiting for their favorite game to be updated and modernized, something that isn't happening.

I don't understand how is PoE1 not being modernized and updated, its literally getting regular updates both graphics and content wise every few months and will continue to do so even after PoE 2 is out ?

PoE2 to me looks closer to PoE1 than ruthless taking into consideration everything they said and showcased on exilecon via gameplay.
You talk about ruthless yet you don't play it at all and trying to make same assumptions as the guy you were calling out for doing same... lol

Ppl need to chill and relax, its fine to be sceptical but these doomsayer threads are just 50IQ, theres plenty of time until beta which will be the real showcase of PoE2.

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trefi289 wrote:

I don't understand how is PoE1 not being modernized and updated, its literally getting regular updates both graphics and content wise every few months and will continue to do so even after PoE 2 is out ?

PoE2 to me looks closer to PoE1 than ruthless taking into consideration everything they said and showcased on exilecon via gameplay.
You talk about ruthless yet you don't play it at all and trying to make same assumptions as the guy you were calling out for doing same... lol

Ppl need to chill and relax, its fine to be sceptical but these doomsayer threads are just 50IQ, theres plenty of time until beta which will be the real showcase of PoE2.

Sure, PoE is getting updates often, but when was the last time we saw real mechanical changes? You know, not just additional content? Better/new animations? Mechanical overhauls? No, PoE isn't getting improvements, it's getting additions. There's a big difference. Unless, of course, you can point me towards something substantial after they knew they had to split the games?

I'm not dooming anything. PoE 2 will be JUST fine. Hell, maybe it will even thrive. Sure, maybe it won't be my thing, but that's mainly a "me" problem. I don't really have an issue with PoE 2. It is what it is, and they can design it the way they want to. What I have an issue with, is PoE 1 - and everything that was promised. We have spent years of "filler leagues" waiting for something that will (probably) never come. Unless, of course, you can point me towards any signs telling us PoE 1 will get more than just "additional content".

Anyhow, 50IQ? Come on. 50IQ would be swallowing every piece of hype they throw at us after lying for years.

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Phrazz wrote:

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trefi289 wrote:

I don't understand how is PoE1 not being modernized and updated, its literally getting regular updates both graphics and content wise every few months and will continue to do so even after PoE 2 is out ?

PoE2 to me looks closer to PoE1 than ruthless taking into consideration everything they said and showcased on exilecon via gameplay.
You talk about ruthless yet you don't play it at all and trying to make same assumptions as the guy you were calling out for doing same... lol

Ppl need to chill and relax, its fine to be sceptical but these doomsayer threads are just 50IQ, theres plenty of time until beta which will be the real showcase of PoE2.

Sure, PoE is getting updates often, but when was the last time we saw real mechanical changes? You know, not just additional content? Better/new animations? Mechanical overhauls? No, PoE isn't getting improvements, it's getting additions. There's a big difference. Unless, of course, you can point me towards something substantial after they knew they had to split the games?

I'm not dooming anything. PoE 2 will be JUST fine. Hell, maybe it will even thrive. Sure, maybe it won't be my thing, but that's mainly a "me" problem. I don't really have an issue with PoE 2. It is what it is, and they can design it the way they want to. What I have an issue with, is PoE 1 - and everything that was promised. We have spent years of "filler leagues" waiting for something that will (probably) never come. Unless, of course, you can point me towards any signs telling us PoE 1 will get more than just "additional content".

Anyhow, 50IQ? Come on. 50IQ would be swallowing every piece of hype they throw at us after lying for years.

Well from what i can see your problem is that you want POE 2 and not POE 1, but you put the idea in your head that POE2 = ruthless and you are not a fan of ruthless so you are now left hanging and POE1 future updates are set in stone theres never gonna be mechanical overhaul or new animation ever again.

And maybe you are right but maybe you are also wrong? imagine that, but how about we wait and see? split was announced few days ago, maybe this decision was decided awhile ago but now its the official stance and they have to fully back it up from this point onward.

Mandatory ruthless in poe2 is name of this thread.
There is clear overreacting going on.
You don't have to swallow any hype at all and you shouldn't , but maybe use this same way of thinking other way around as well, if future is unknown then wait and see , mandatory no new animation ever again in poe1 or a mechanical overhaul right?

People are asking for POE1 developer manifesto and this is the right way to go and after that you should form your opinion on future of poe1.

Yes, Im a Ruthless player, but I dont understand what the problem if the game gets slower (Im sure it will be faster than Ruthless), everyone slows down. Or you need to zoom zoom ubers in 2 days, bye, until the next league? Yeah, thats definitely interesting.

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Teret3 wrote:

Yes, Im a Ruthless player, but I dont understand what the problem if the game gets slower (Im sure it will be faster than Ruthless), everyone slows down. Or you need to zoom zoom ubers in 2 days, bye, until the next league? Yeah, thats definitely interesting.

Whats weird to me is that they even explained what their goal is on terms of how slower it is, i remember them saying that they find 60 projectiles per second reasonable but not 600 and the 95%+ percentile insanity thats in current poe and then they think its good idea to compare it to ruthless.

I guess if speed dial is not 100 but 70, they think of it as 0 lol.

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Phrazz wrote:

What do you actually think Ruthless is? Kripp is "two-tapping" most rares there, and has decent gear.

You're speaking as if you KNOW the progression curve. You're speaking as if you KNOW the scarcity level of gear. You're speaking as if you KNOW how powerful or deterministic crafting will be. Newsflash: You don't know, you saw the same ExileCon as everyone else.

You can't deny that there are several links between PoE 2 and Ruthless when it comes to design and balance. Gold for vendors, one portal bosses, no crafting bench, "no" movement skills, overall slowed down game. Hell, they even stated in several interviews that Ruthless has been a testing ground for PoE 2.

The one that needs to "chill" here is you. People are allowed to be skeptical, because most of them are actually PoE players - waiting for their favorite game to be updated and modernized, something that isn't happening.

I don't "know" things about PoE2. What I am basing my assumptions on, however, are words the developers said as much as watching streamers struggle bus their mostly-blind playthroughs with bad characters. And not simply words the developers said specifically in ExileCon the Second.

Are there thematic similarities between PoE2 as revealed in ExileCon the Second and the Ruthless game mode? Yes. This should not surprise people; it's been obvious for years that Chris Wilson and the entire Grinding Gear development team think Path of Exile 1 has become way, way, way too fast. We knew as far back as ExileCon the First that Grinding Gear was designing PoE2 to emphasize use of multiple skills in a tactical manner. Why would they do that if they had no intention of creating the sort of tactical combat that warranted multiple skill use? If they give you multiple six-links but still make it trivial to Tornado Shot an entire map to death from spawn in less than a second, why are they bothering with the skill redux at all?

Yes, they want to slow the game down, but Chris has also talked repeatedly about the fact that he knows he can't put the genie entirely back in the bottle. He and Jonathan both seem to know this. Chris has said more than once that he knows the majority of the playerbase would never accept the sort of limitations that went into Ruthless mode, which is why Ruthless is a seldom-played optional mode that doesn't take up much dev time. Jonathan said that the current speed of the ninety-fifth percentile of Path of Exile players breaches common sense, but he also quite plainly said "I'd like it if we could keep it to sixty projectiles a second instead of six hundred; I want players to be able to do crazy stuff that makes them feel like they broke the game, I just don't want them to actually break the game." The intent was very clearly that you can still be batshit, you just ideally can't be so batshit that you can't see the screen anymore and have no idea what's happening.

ZiggyD actually released an excellent video this morning with a lot of insightful commentary on the state of the ExileCon the Second demos and the things that need to happen for Grinding Gear to stick the landing on their new vision for combat. Because yeah, there were definitely problems with the demo. Ziggy rightly pointed out that while the bosses were pure PoE2 the whole way through and a delight to watch (even if they took too long), the actual mobs/critters in the game were still moving and fighting at PoE1 speed versus PoE2 characters. That left the monsters well inside the OODA loop of most players and able to apply more pressure than the average player could easily deal with, especially with the preponderance of random stuns/freezes/flinches.

There was also the issue of the streamers showcasing the game not really grokking the paradigm shift inherent in the new skill system. Ziggy mentioned figuring out how the Huntress' skills worked by lucky accident and thus managing to chunk boss health bars with breathtaking speed in the showcase, and though I didn't see it apparently Nugi's showcase had a dev along to explain the way the Warrior's skills worked and meshed together and thus Nugi did far, far better than, say...Mathil.

Poor Mathil.

That showcase was painful to watch, and I could easily understand people feeling Some Kinda Way about PoE if they saw that showcase and thought that was the way the game was supposed to be, because Mathil is an incredibly skilled and accomplished PoE1 player so obviously he's also excellent at PoE2, right? Nah. Wrong. Mathil played the hardest zone on the hardest character. never once really examined his skills, and was applying PoE1 rules to the PoE2 demo because he doesn't know the PoE2 rules. Of course he struggled.

But if you listen to the words and don't just watch streamers getting their asses handed to them, you get a clearer picture of the intent behind the systemic changes. Does that mean Grinding Gear is guaranteed to stick the landing? Fuuuck no. Anyone who's played PoE1 for more'n twenty minutes knows better. The company is far from infallible, PoE2's release is going to be a Wild West of unintended fuckery. It'll probably be at least a year if not more before shit starts to settle down.

The real difference is that while rather than "swallowing the hype" and blindly fangirling the new game, too many people on the forum watched one streamer struggle one time and immediately started screaming in thirty different threads "OMG SCUFFED RUTHLESS EVERYTHING SUCKS FOREVER POE2 LITERALLY WORST GAME EVER MADE GAME WILL KILL YOUR FAMILY AND BURN YOUR HOUSE DOWN GRINDING GEAR SHOULD BE UP ON WAR CRIMES". The overwhelming backlash against the game is overblown in the absolute extreme, and if the game was actually provably terrible that'd be one thing. But the people doing the screeching very clearly did not watch or listen to shit and are knee-jerking so hard their feet are flying off.

I'm more than willing to engage in a discussion about the demo's displayed strengths and weaknesses. Like I said, Ziggy's recent Combat in PoE2 video was super insightful and brought up a lot of talking points I'd love to chew through with folks like you who actually think about the game, Phrazz. But I can't really get a word in edgewise between all the panicked caterwauling about shit that's just plain incorrect, and it sucks.

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kuciol wrote:

Have any of you actually watched the demo? They had blue items, weapons with+1 and +2 to gems and nothing else, skills with 0 support gems (spark had pierce but that's - for DMG) and we dont know anything about skill tree. The game will not be like that. You can chill.

These people obviously don't know what Ruthless is and apparently think we saw a bunch of high-level chars with top-tier gear on an endgame scenario at Exilecon.

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Phrazz wrote:

....

Sure, PoE is getting updates often, but when was the last time we saw real mechanical changes? You know, not just additional content? Better/new animations? Mechanical overhauls? No, PoE isn't getting improvements, it's getting additions.

Well, there's the new graphics engine they introduced a fortnight back.

Admittedly this intermittently ruins gameplay for one of my few remaining guildies still playing, and leaves me with D2-level resolution whenever something dangerous happens, which is not a good sign for PoE2. And it's certainly not "better" than what came before, for us.

But it's certainly a major mechanical update, just not a helpful one.