[Ruthless] Ruthless is the most important experiment that ever happened in ARPG history

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鬼殺し wrote:

I still don't think PoE has been the sort of game most GGG devs would ever play in their spare time

Funny enough a lot of them do play it in their spare time even after their work shift. And before you ask yes discord is your best friend to tell ya what people play

Eh fair enough. That's a change from when I knew them. Cool.

As for Discord, I feel like I need a bath after spending any time in any sort of "public" chat room these days. Great for its original purpose of orgsnising voice chat for private gaming and just as a sort of gamer-aimed IRC though. :)

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鬼殺し wrote:

Eh fair enough. That's a change from when I knew them. Cool.

As for Discord, I feel like I need a bath after spending any time in any sort of "public" chat room these days. Great for its original purpose of orgsnising voice chat for private gaming and just as a sort of gamer-aimed IRC though. :)

The problem with discord and POE is that POE is too big of a game. In any given POE discord there are at least 20 people at a given time typing away. Imagine if it was voiced! >.>

But discord is a really good thing if you can get a few people and voice chat away. 10 max is really good in voice chat when playing a game.




As for the topic. I think that the problem is what defines meaningful loot? It is different for every player. I think the problem of defeating ubers in a few seconds is dissolved when you play crappy builds of your own making. I spend like minimum 15 minutes beating ubers at a time. That is good for me.

For people not liking beating ubers in a few seconds I suggest playing bad or average builds of your own design. You will have a ton more fun.

Problem is however is trade if YOU LET IT BOTHER YOU. IF you let people killing ubers over and over in a few seconds and getting loot bother you would will be unsatisfied.

Ruthless isn't much of an experiment its just a dragbox on PoE's regular gameplay cycle that you've then stretched out 10x and called it a day.

That design has existed forever its basically the core design for MMOs which was take a traditional rpg then stretch all the elements out so they take months instead of hours via long grinds, loot scarcity and as things progressed direct gating (loot resets).

For it to be an experiment it would have to be experimental and it isn't, its just elongated. More changes like the no travel skills would send it in the experimental direction within the PoE framework but there really aren't enough differences currently.

Choice is good: Ruthless mode? Good for those who enjoy it. There is SSF for those who want that. Just that there should also be a mode for casuals, a so-called 'toothless' mode. Casuals also want to experience end-game content instead of just watching streamers do it.

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hasatt0 wrote:

Choice is good: Ruthless mode? Good for those who enjoy it. There is SSF for those who want that. Just that there should also be a mode for casuals, a so-called 'toothless' mode. Casuals also want to experience end-game content instead of just watching streamers do it.

I think GGG have been pretty clear: There will never be a mode easier/quicker than SC trade, not even if you pay for a private league. I think a "toothless" mode would just shift the game into something different. 'Most' people will always choose the path of least resistance, and a lot of them would be bored after a week. Sure, you could blame the player here, but that wouldn't be the whole picture. SC trade IS the easy mode. And no matter how many easier leagues they would make, there will always be someone asking for an even easier mode. I think there's a limit as to how many modes/leagues a game can have.

GGG loves their economy. And for an economy to somewhat function, it needs players on both sides of the "investment scale", as well as those in between.

That's just my two cents. I have no idea if an easy mode would be a success or not, but trying to see it from GGG's eyes, it's hard to see it ever happening. The game would somewhat lose its identity.

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Phrazz wrote:

I think a "toothless" mode would just shift the game into something different.

You can change "toothless" to "ruthless" and the same sentence is still true.

The fact is, the vast majority want speed meta, and for years that was what GGG gave us. Metamorph, Delirium, Ritual, Legion, the best retention leagues, i just want what they gave us before pulling the rug. Nothing more, nothing less.

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AdRonZh3Ro wrote:

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Phrazz wrote:

I think a "toothless" mode would just shift the game into something different.

You can change "toothless" to "ruthless" and the same sentence is still true.

The fact is, the vast majority want speed meta, and for years that was what GGG gave us. Metamorph, Delirium, Ritual, Legion, the best retention leagues, i just want what they gave us before pulling the rug. Nothing more, nothing less.

And you just ignored the part about the path of least resistance? Ruthless is a very niche option (and more difficult than the "main" league), a toothless mode wouldn't be, because it would be the path of least resistance - and hence it would change the game way more than Ruthless will ever do.

Yes, they gave players a lot of power over the years, and then hit a soft reset button in 3.15. That's how development goes in a progressive game when power creep is a main part of it. It will probably happen again.

Again, i want what they alredy done, which is alredy grindy enough, how many times do you want me to repeat it? Nothing about 3.13 was even remotely easy, you still needed constant farming to do anything, and people keep constantly glossing over that. So to be absolutely clear, i couldn't give a shit about Toothless mode or whatever. I. Want. What. We. Had.

More over, we could make the game hard enough to match all the gear we had. Nothing in the game even comes close to that balance now. Except Delve, but fuck Delve.

And the hilarious part, is that Crucible alredy is stronger than anything before with the shittiest league mechanic possible, even worse than Harvest.

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AdRonZh3Ro wrote:

Again, i want what they alredy done, which is alredy grindy enough, how many times do you want me to repeat it? Nothing about 3.13 was even remotely easy, you still needed constant farming to do anything, and people keep constantly glossing over that. So to be absolutely clear, i couldn't give a shit about Toothless mode or whatever.I. Want. What. We. Had

Sure, I could go back to pre-Harvest PoE. Many fun leagues back then. Harvest, on the other hand, was so destructive to everything else in the game. Looting, Delving, Essences (to a certain degree), hell - even the crafting bench were all obsolete. The whole game was centered around Harvest. But Legion, Blight, Metamorph and Delirium were fun as hell.

But then again, I find PoE tremendously fun now too. I think the accessibility of fractured gear makes crafting the "next best items" ("good enough") pretty easy and straight forward, and feel that 'most' people have something to "strive towards", while also having a lot of content that is easy.