Can we please get a acution house for Poe 2?

Dude, the trading console players make up 100% of the economy for console. Who else do you think participates in that market? Do you even understand the meaning of the words economy and market?

You really need to get your facts straight instead of referencing to that nonsense manifesto all the time like a fanatic.

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Baharoth15 wrote:

Dude, the trading console players make up 100% of the economy for console. Who else do you think participates in that market? Do you even understand the meaning of the words economy and market?

You really need to get your facts straight instead of referencing to that nonsense manifesto all the time like a fanatic.

Balancing the economy is not what the manifesto is about...

And using the word 'nonsense' about a document that is the basis of GGGs decision for trade being as it is, and the history for trading before that, is pretty silly.

You may not like the manifesto, but it is probably the most valid document GGG has ever issued. They've kept to it consistently (before and after issue), and has verified it is still current on many occasions.

GGGs concern about the long-term well-being of the game is far more important than some players feeling they're entitled to easy trading.

Console is pretty irrelevant too... It is a small portion of players. The majority of PC players doesn't trade, so my best guess is it is less on console, given the cludgy interface. You can't compare the two.

Just because GGG keeps sticking to that old outdated and for the most part flat out wrong/inaccurate document doesn't mean it's valid.
It's not about liking it or not. I would accept it if it made any sense even if i dislike it. But it's not making any sense. Everything they want to prevent in that manifesto is already happening and the thing they wanted to achieve with it "Items matter" is long since dead.

Yes, it's still GGGs point of view and the fundament of their design philosophy but it's also factually wrong for the most part. That doesn't change just because GGG is not acknowledging/admitting it.

If you ever player D3 during AH-time you will understand the - correct - intend to _never_ include such an auction house.

If not ruining the trade part of the game completely it at least kills trading for the 90%+ people who have a reallife.

No AH - Good !

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Cyzax wrote:

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Baharoth15 wrote:

Dude, the trading console players make up 100% of the economy for console. Who else do you think participates in that market? Do you even understand the meaning of the words economy and market?

You really need to get your facts straight instead of referencing to that nonsense manifesto all the time like a fanatic.

Balancing the economy is not what the manifesto is about...

And using the word 'nonsense' about a document that is the basis of GGGs decision for trade being as it is, and the history for trading before that, is pretty silly.

You may not like the manifesto, but it is probably the most valid document GGG has ever issued. They've kept to it consistently (before and after issue), and has verified it is still current on many occasions.

GGGs concern about the long-term well-being of the game is far more important than some players feeling they're entitled to easy trading.

Console is pretty irrelevant too... It is a small portion of players. The majority of PC players doesn't trade, so my best guess is it is less on console, given the cludgy interface. You can't compare the two.

In that manifesto they flat out admit that only 10% of players ever get past mid tier maps (because they engage in trade) while the remaining 90% never even get to see the whole game because they don't engage in trade, or if they do they do so very minimally. This is because trading is MANDATORY to get anywhere substantial unless you have a PHD in PoEology and can stand a reasonable chance at success in SSF. They think that because those top 10% blow through the entire game within a month of a league starting that means that the remaining 90% will do the same, except that they wont because there is a LOT more to being in the top 10% then just knowing the ins and outs of the current bs trade system.

They also absolutely DO think it will wreck the economy as they straight up said that if they added an AH they would have to tank drop rates for items to keep their value. Well guess what, drop rates are already so abysmally low as to make trading mandatory. YOU are the one who didn't understand the manifesto, and you're still here defending that outdated pile of garbage for what I can only assume is to suck up to GGG. Your senpai wont notice you, they only care about your wallet!

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bex_HB wrote:

If you ever player D3 during AH-time you will understand the - correct - intend to _never_ include such an auction house.

If not ruining the trade part of the game completely it at least kills trading for the 90%+ people who have a reallife.

No AH - Good !

D3 is not a valid comparison because they shot themselves in the foot by adding RMT to the AH they implemented by making the games MTX currency tradable. This allowed whales to open their wallet whenever they wanted market control. THAT is what made the AH in D3 destroy the games economy, the RMT aspect, NOT its inherent existence, and in response they basically removed trading completely from D3, which was MASSIVE and unnecessary overkill. Meanwhile PoE doesn't have tradable MTX so that wont be an issue. Also, if you're concerned about the top 10% of players controlling the economy of PoE they already do because a group called The Forbidden Trove has already engineered an easy trade system for PoE via discord and as a result TFT management control the games economy. There are screenshots that the owner of TFT discord spreads around of them having HUNDREDS of mirrors less then a week into a league because his little PoE mafia control more then half of all trade that happens in the game.

There are ways to do an AH that keep the reigns on prices and can actually IMPROVE a loot-based games economy such as adding a trade tax and limiting the number of items that can be listed at once by any given player. D3 and PoE are apples and oranges!

Also, you know what REALLY kills a game for people with a real life? Having to waste half your available free time allocated to playing that game hanging out in your hideout because the devs refuse to stop wasting your time as a form of half-assed game balance! Every other MMO on the planet is waking up to the fact that many of their players are ADULTS with JOBS and FAMILIES who don't have hours on end to waste on a game where trading is mandatory but that also has a trade system deliberately designed to waste as much of their time as physically possible.

Bottom line is the top 10% blow through the game that fast because they have more time in each day to devote to playing then everyone else. They are likely streamers whose literal job it is to play PoE all day for an audience or people who have passive income sustaining their lives and thus have all day every day open to play this game. Making trading easy wont suddenly mean that people with jobs will be able to join that crowd, it will just mean that their time will now be respected instead of being deliberately wasted.

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Lonnie455Rich wrote:

There is a cost to being able to trade items for currency, that cost is trading.
As annoying as it is sometimes its necessary.

Most people that want an ah probably never played d2 back in the day where you had to make a game and wait for someone to join to trade, poe trade system is infinitely better than any other arpg. AH doesnt belong --> see d3.

Dude this is very stupid system. With advance of AI already 30%+ players using bots to at least sell items overnight. And the RMT guys is using trade bots to snipe items/flip currencies and more.

This ancient no to AH manifesto needs to go away. World is changed game need to be adapted. If no AH any time soon I can expect a huge trade bot spike in the next league-two.

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Emperor_home wrote:

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Lonnie455Rich wrote:

There is a cost to being able to trade items for currency, that cost is trading.
As annoying as it is sometimes its necessary.

Most people that want an ah probably never played d2 back in the day where you had to make a game and wait for someone to join to trade, poe trade system is infinitely better than any other arpg. AH doesnt belong --> see d3.

Dude this is very stupid system. With advance of AI already 30%+ players using bots to at least sell items overnight. And the RMT guys is using trade bots to snipe items/flip currencies and more.

This ancient no to AH manifesto needs to go away. World is changed game need to be adapted. If no AH any time soon I can expect a huge trade bot spike in the next league-two.

Not only that, but we have TFT, who have already created an easy trade system and have such a tight stranglehold on the games economy due to GGGs refusal to do it themselves that the owner of TFT manages to amass literally hundreds of mirrors within 1-2 weeks of the start of every league. How is it ok for a third party group running a Discord server to implement easy trade but somehow it would magically be disastrous for GGG to do it themselves? You know what's disastrous? 90% of all mirror drops rotting in ONE a**holes pocket because GGG refuses to take action to fix this issue.

Also, pointing to an example of a game from 20 years ago and going, "look how much worse it used to be" is stupid. No shit it used to be worse, D2 is ANCIENT! Games have grown, times have changed, gamers are no longer 90% children with heaps of time to burn, more gamers now are adults with jobs and families and most devs have realized that if you want trade at all it needs to be easy. The ONLY exception to that is when RMT is inherently a part of said game like it was with D3. If MTX currency is tradable then yes, an AH is a bad thing because it enables whales to open their wallet and find the keys to the games entire economy. D3 is NOT and never will be a valid comparison to PoE because D3 allowed RMT in their AH. PoE doesn't allow RMT at all. The only game I have ever seen that successfully made built-in RMT good for the game is Warframe, and guess what, Warframe STRICTLY limits trade capability far more then PoE does. They do not have an official trade site, they do not have a stupid API to scrape data with, they ONLY have a trade chat that you're only allowed to post in once every minute and a half. (iirc) If they want an excuse for trade to suck this much that is actually legitimate they need to enable trading of MTX currency and REMOVE the trade site all together along with the API that enables people to make one themselves. Otherwise they need to shut the f*** up about "friction" in trade and actually put trade IN the game rather then on a website. Gamers no longer have all this time to waste, so wasting our time because they think wasted time leads to retention is bullshit. Wasted time leads ONLY to frustration and an un-fun experience with your game. Even POKEMON has woken the f*** up and fixed their game by removing 90% of the grind from the process of building a team and they were a franchise who used the nonsense excuse of, "if its easy then a good team has no value" too. Meanwhile now that its actually reasonable for someone with a JOB to build a good team, a good team still has value. The only thing that has changed is now most people actually make the team themselves rather then feeling like an Action Replay is the only reasonable option. With trade the way it is now, TFT is PoE's Action Replay. We already have easy trade, its just out of GGGs hands when it doesn't have to be. Please, FFS, phase out the "cheaters" who use RMT and TFT to do what you say we shouldn't be able to do and put it in the damn game yourself!

i dont get the argument, that u have to search items. you still need to find the fitting items and search in the acution house, only difference for me is that u straight get it and not need to ask 20x people to trade with you and loose time.

For a casual and even high end player it would safe hours within a league when u logoff and have your items sold by the next day.

The only problem is when u put a really valuable item in a price fixed tab for 20c but than still there could be an additional confirmation needed. and maybe you would see how many people tried to buy ure item the next day. Maybe the normal way to sell and item would be to set up negotionable price and if u fix it, its gone when somebody buys it. I am not quite sure but would you have ideas to fix this problem?

Disrespect for players time is actually the opposite of good design.

"Friction" is bad.

I 100% agree with the auction house idea, there should (of course) be a sales tax involved, but there needs to be a way to conduct trade without losing map portals or without feeling stressed (even successful trades are causes of stress because, for example, I'm a controller player and I need some time to unstack chaos orbs, etc...).

That's ok, either they will quit being so stupid with their game design or PoE will eventually crumble and fall into obscurity as every other game moves on into the future around them and they're still stuck in the 90's. (ironic considering the game came out in 2013) If the history of video games has taught me anything its that when a developer fails to recognize what makes a game good or bad its only a matter of time before another company sees an opportunity to steal their audience from them by copying their formula and doing it better just like Fortnite did with the battle royal formula. Eventually another MMOARPG will come to be with a player growth system just as free-range as PoE, only it will actually have reasonable QoL and real trade. When that happens all the people who love PoE for its build freedom and uniqueness, which is everyone who isn't already playing something like Torchlight or Diablo, will ditch this festering dumpster fire of a company for one that isn't completely delusional.