General Discussion - Crucible is Fundamentally Flawed - Especially at endgame - Forum

" AcrylicHercules wrote: " DarthSki44 wrote: I mean that's sort of semantics as your description of "imbue" and "reveal" is essentially the same thing to the player. It's not like players now only pickup items they will use, they also consider its relative value or potential. It will be interesting to see how players min/max this. Perhaps skipping is the better option. But they're not at all the same thing, at least not to this player. If you play with the perspective that "every weapon on the ground has a passive tree and if I don't pick it up and check it I'm missing out and it'll suck", then yeah, you're not going to have fun. But that's just a self-inflicted wound. Don't do that. If instead you play with the (intended) perspective of "ooh I found a nice weapon, this is a good candidate to put a passive tree on it and see how far I can push it" then you'll have much more fun. I'm not sure why anybody would want to skip it. Ok well what will you personally do about Siege Axes for example? Are you going to skip them (if not relevant to your build) or will you "imbue" them to check their value? I think that a fairly reasonable situation people will find themselves in. "Better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak out and remove all doubt." - Abraham Lincoln	Posted by DarthSki44#6905 on Apr 1, 2023, 12:07:36 PM Quote this Post
" DarthSki44 wrote: " AcrylicHercules wrote: " DarthSki44 wrote: I mean that's sort of semantics as your description of "imbue" and "reveal" is essentially the same thing to the player. It's not like players now only pickup items they will use, they also consider its relative value or potential. It will be interesting to see how players min/max this. Perhaps skipping is the better option. But they're not at all the same thing, at least not to this player. If you play with the perspective that "every weapon on the ground has a passive tree and if I don't pick it up and check it I'm missing out and it'll suck", then yeah, you're not going to have fun. But that's just a self-inflicted wound. Don't do that. If instead you play with the (intended) perspective of "ooh I found a nice weapon, this is a good candidate to put a passive tree on it and see how far I can push it" then you'll have much more fun. I'm not sure why anybody would want to skip it. Ok well what will you personally do about Siege Axes for example? Are you going to skip them (if not relevant to your build) or will you "imbue" them to check their value? I think that a fairly reasonable situation people will find themselves in. I'm certainly not going to pick up every one of them to imbue them just in case, unless I'm playing a build that uses them. I'm going to imbue items that interest me, and not feel bad about the items I don't pick up. In other words, I'll play like I normally do, and I don't see why I'd feel bad about that. - here's my sig	Posted by AcrylicHercules#1220 on Apr 1, 2023, 12:14:01 PM Quote this Post
" DarthSki44 wrote: To be honest there is no great solution for this. If you make it so the trees are identified with wisdom scrolls, this really upsets the flow of mapping You pretty much id every good weapon base in early late game anyways to see if you find something worth to sell or use as an upgrade. So it wouldn't really change much at this rate. Flames and madness. I'm so glad I didn't miss the fun. Last edited by Pashid#4643 on Apr 1, 2023, 12:19:13 PM	Posted by Pashid#4643 on Apr 1, 2023, 12:14:59 PM Quote this Post
" Pashid wrote: " DarthSki44 wrote: To be honest there is no great solution for this. If you make it so the trees are identified with wisdom scrolls, this really upsets the flow of mapping You pretty much id every good weapon base in early late game anyways to see if you find something worth to sell or use as an upgrade. So it wouldn't really change much at this rate. The entire league mechanic changes even less for standard players for now anyhow so I fail to see your concerns. I don't know if everyone does that actually, but the difference in Crucible is the base or rolls don't matter as much (for trade / currency / recomb), its the tree & nodes that matters. For example a trash rolled dagger on a trash dagger base might actually have really good passives or a node that would sell to a vendor for valuable currency. "Better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak out and remove all doubt." - Abraham Lincoln	Posted by DarthSki44#6905 on Apr 1, 2023, 12:22:43 PM Quote this Post
" DarthSki44 wrote: This is EXACTLY my point, and the choice players are going to have to make, neither of which are good. Edit: and players already do this to a lesser degree. Like do you blindly engage in sanctum areas or do you look at your pathing? Maybe you don't actually care about the rewards, I imagine some people do. Is it still a choice if it's something you'd never consider doing? As long as I'll be bothered to run the mechanic, I'll just use it as I'm mapping. I certainly won't be running quarry or low tier maps multiple times in a row just to identify item trees. Nor will I feel gimped or feel bad about missing potential rewards. You were presenting it as only having two possible outcomes (tedium or feeling bad for missing out), I'm just saying other points of view exist. As far as Sanctum, I wasn't running them optimally and I stopped running them after a while as I didn't enjoy them. I'll be doing something similar with this league mechanic as well.	Posted by insectbrain#7945 on Apr 1, 2023, 12:24:12 PM Quote this Post
For people wondering about Trade, Chris mentioned that there's one guy who works on the trade site, and that players have the API for it, so they can do what they want and fix the problem.	Posted by jdp29#1389 on Apr 1, 2023, 12:28:50 PM Quote this Post
" DarthSki44 wrote: For example a trash rolled dagger on a trash dagger base might actually have really good passives or a node that would sell to a vendor for valuable currency. It's just the gamble of the league so it's up to you to check every single weapon or stick with your loot filter. You either hit something good on the weapon or you don't. You can take your time and check every single weapon you find to higher the chances of finding something good but also waste more of your time time, or you go with the best crafting bases and even hit something to sell without a good passive tree. It's been the same story since the last two leagues. You either hit or missed the good Kalandra tiles, or you had luck with divine/mirror sanctum reward rooms or not. Flames and madness. I'm so glad I didn't miss the fun. Last edited by Pashid#4643 on Apr 1, 2023, 12:31:08 PM	Posted by Pashid#4643 on Apr 1, 2023, 12:29:23 PM Quote this Post
Its hilarious that you're still strawmanning the league mechanic as 'I have to check all the items' when not only do you not have to, you are literally bottlenecked from doing so. Sheesh. If you think scoping out siege axes is your best play then do it.	Posted by innervation#4093 on Apr 1, 2023, 12:45:52 PM Quote this Post
There are not much items drop in ruthless. It is the only game mode that matter for CW and co.	Posted by geddim#3705 on Apr 1, 2023, 1:14:42 PM Quote this Post
" DarthSki44 wrote: I haven't seen many threads about this specifically (I've made a few posts in another thread on it), so I'm not sure if people realize how incredibly annoying the Crucible mechanic will be in maps for players. ... The truth is every weapon that drops has the potential for interesting powerful passives, useful currency, or depending on the base, valuable unique transformation. If you want to check what's on the tree, as it is now, you need to take it to an alter. With only 1 per instance, you can see the bottleneck that is created. Are you really going to be spamming quarry (or insert favorite instance spam), with an inventory of weapons, in order to find out what trees you weapon has? Or will you decide to completely skip all the weapons while mapping, unless it's directly related to the base of your specific build? ... We will see, but I think this is going to become a glaring issue, very quickly. Possibly you're misconstruing the league mechanic. If it works like every other, you will get one and ONLY one crucible attempt per map (per party member?). So no matter how much stuff drops, you'll only have one chance to imbue/progress a weapon. The choice wil either be "check out this decent new rare which dropped" or "continue progressing this excellent base and see what's next", which is still very annoying but is a different problem. Maybe I'm wrong, but I think this is how it will work. You can't check/imbue trees on everything, the only decision is whether to concentrate on one or risk changing up. Looking for a mature guild to play with? http://www.guildmedieval.com Courtesy, Integrity, Fair Play. I understand this is a role playing game, but I don't think the best role to play should be shopkeeper. - AlteraxPoe	Posted by Varana#3018 on Apr 1, 2023, 2:16:54 PM Quote this Post