The XP Penalty is the worst thing in Path of Exile, remove it !!!

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raics wrote:

That's a good thing, if EXP penalty didn't affect any builds besides glass cannons that would mean you can't die in this game as long as you ticked a few basic checkboxes. That would be bad for several reasons and the worst is that it makes character building too simple, which affects itemization and market, maybe it's just me but I like seeing good defensive items being worth something.
Also, if the game is way too boring you might fall asleep, roll out of the chair hit your head on the edge of a pringles box and die. See? Exp penalty saves lives.

Of course, I'm not saying it should be like gauntlet where your head starts pulsing after several hours of total concentration either, there should be a nice middle ground.

Unfortunately, if there is even a single hole in your defenses, no amount of concentration is going to save you. "Penalty" term has different meaning in game where "you die if you play silly and refuse to read", and game of "you die anyway, regardless of investment".

And before you bring up those hardcore players who reach endgame, can you be certain they aren't all using logout macros? And not limit themselves to specific subset of playstyles (attacking offscreen or via proxies), and equipment (knowing "secret" ways of how to fit all above-mentioned mitigation onto 1 char, and still have some meaningful dps)? And not reroll each map 10 times, to be sure it is safe?

Get better defences? Does not matter in this game

ATM I play RF Inquisitor with following stats:
55-60K armor
Elemental res max, some at 80%
Chaos res maxed 65% + flask
Max attack block
Max Spell Block
Aegis shield equipped
Shock immune
Freeze immune

And still some random mob on a map can kill me... And I do mind the map mods that I play, and I can easily beat all end game bosses.

So... take care of your defenses in not an answer obviously.

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Echothesis wrote:

Unfortunately, if there is even a single hole in your defenses, no amount of concentration is going to save you. "Penalty" term has different meaning in game where "you die if you play silly and refuse to read", and game of "you die anyway, regardless of investment".

And before you bring up those hardcore players who reach endgame, can you be certain they aren't all using logout macros? And not limit themselves to specific subset of playstyles (attacking offscreen or via proxies), and equipment (knowing "secret" ways of how to fit all above-mentioned mitigation onto 1 char, and still have some meaningful dps)? And not reroll each map 10 times, to be sure it is safe?

Of course concentration matters, if I wasn't concentrating in the gauntlet I wouldn't last 15 minutes in maps. Of course, that doesn't mean it's the only thing that matters, it's just one thing on the checklist. I died before hitting 90 because I took a risk that I shouldn't, I knew it was very risky, decided to try anyway and it didn't pan out, but if I wasn't able to maintain focus I'd be dead a long, long time ago. And yes, I'm 100% sure there was no logout macro on my machine, nobody else is using it, obviously I can't vouch for everyone but I guess we can see that at least some streamers don't.

Honestly, I was a little relieved there. As I said, that amount of tension for that long probably isn't healthy, but without some kind of stake I might as well play farmville.

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raics wrote:

Honestly, I was a little relieved there. As I said, that amount of tension for that long probably isn't healthy, but without some kind of stake I might as well play farmville.

Play hardcore then and let other players suffer less when GGG thinks stacking 30 mods on a single mob is a real 5head move, like they did with archnem.

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LimeKoala wrote:

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raics wrote:

Honestly, I was a little relieved there. As I said, that amount of tension for that long probably isn't healthy, but without some kind of stake I might as well play farmville.

Play hardcore then and let other players suffer less when GGG thinks stacking 30 mods on a single mob is a real 5head move, like they did with archnem.

Haven't expected that, I hoped that it was obvious from my post why I don't do that, and why I think that XP penalty is fine.

On the dying part, if we list some conditions for dying, for example
1 Iffy build
2 Poor risk management (biting more than you can chew)
3 Falling asleep at the wheel
4 Unpredictably lethal content that far exceeds the expected difficulty level

It should never be a full AND relation, when you have to tick all boxes for kicking the bucket, because a perfect storm scenario shouldn't be the only way to die. However, it obviously shouldn't be a full OR relation either where just one of them will kill you, and I don't think it's often the case in PoE, it's usually a combo of two or more factors.

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Alhanna wrote:

Get better defences? Does not matter in this game

ATM I play RF Inquisitor with following stats:
55-60K armor
Elemental res max, some at 80%
Chaos res maxed 65% + flask
Max attack block
Max Spell Block
Aegis shield equipped
Shock immune
Freeze immune

And still some random mob on a map can kill me... And I do mind the map mods that I play, and I can easily beat all end game bosses.

So... take care of your defenses in not an answer obviously.

Thank you for understanding me and commenting on things beyond the obvious "your build is wrong" "stop crying"

^I agree with most of that; however #4 seems to be more and more a major concern.

TBH you really shouldn't NEED max everything defense to survive certain maps and content without having to focus. I am honestly in the camp that even max resistances shouldn't be NECESSARY to survive in "normal" content. The lowest common denominator in this game is just set way too high. There SHOULD be a point where you have a build that you can fully expect to not die even if you were to go afk into ANY massive pack of rares in a specific content. If I can clear lvl 83+ content with ease, I shouldn't then also be able to get spiked in one shot from a monster at lvl 68. That simply doesn't make any sense, and yet it happens frequently enough to be noticeable.

The mods on rares, combined with league content, combined with map mods, too often creates content that, as you said, is unpredictably difficult. The unpredictability is a HUGE problem, and points to extremely poor game design. The new pokemon games suffer from the same issue...you go along fighting pokemon that are around your current level and then all of a sudden: wild fully evolved pokemon 30 levels higher than you that you cant escape from. This isn't a difficulty thing, its a design flaw.

The hardest possible rare in a map should NOT be tougher than a boss, nor should it be so astronimcally harder than the rest of the map that it is "unpredictable". If its unpredictable, then its also unavoidable, and therefore the player has no way to counter it except to HOPEFULLY run away. Although even that isn't an option in most cases because the monsters are way too fast, and you die in 1 or 2 hits within less than a second.

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jsuslak313 wrote:

The hardest possible rare in a map should NOT be tougher than a boss, nor should it be so astronimcally harder than the rest of the map that it is "unpredictable". If its unpredictable, then its also unavoidable, and therefore the player has no way to counter it except to HOPEFULLY run away. Although even that isn't an option in most cases because the monsters are way too fast, and you die in 1 or 2 hits within less than a second.

And I agree with this, it shouldn't be the case, or at least not to this extent. The way HC players survive is by knowing that monsters like that can spawn and either accounting for it in their risk evaluation and estimating that they could survive an encounter like that even if they do fall asleep, or ignoring 2 and hoping that they will be aware and fast enough to run away.
So, if they die it's because they failed 2 and 3 to some extent and 4 happened. Of course, because broken monsters are too strong, doing 2 too well means you will be much stronger than 99.9% of the content, which increases your chances of falling asleep and failing 3.

So, yeah, it would be better if the variance was lower, but if it was too predictable and easy to account for, then players can die only to 3 + 4 which isn't enough, I think that's the main reason GGG doesn't think there's a problem.

I hope that at least GGG knows about the players' dissatisfaction with this !! this definitely puts off a lot of players!! I'm in love with ARPG (Grim Dawn, Diablo, Titan quests and etc) and it frustrates me that at the same time I want to be playing POE I at the same time don't want to !! it's frustrating and disheartening!!

Forgive veteran players if it sounds like a lot of whining but games have to be fun above all else !! and definitely a handful of mods accumulated in a monster destroying me in a matter of seconds is not my concept of fun !!!

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Gabriel_Kyosuke wrote:

I hope that at least GGG knows about the players' dissatisfaction with this !! this definitely puts off a lot of players!! I'm in love with ARPG (Grim Dawn, Diablo, Titan quests and etc) and it frustrates me that at the same time I want to be playing POE I at the same time don't want to !! it's frustrating and disheartening!!

Forgive veteran players if it sounds like a lot of whining but games have to be fun above all else !! and definitely a handful of mods accumulated in a monster destroying me in a matter of seconds is not my concept of fun !!!

They are very aware of it and the removal or nerf of the exp penalty has been asked about for a very long time, It seems to be one of the things they are unwilling to budge on even in alternative ways such as mitigating the loss

The only way i can see them budging on it being removed entirely or nerfed at a flat amount would be in Easy Mode another frequently requested option.