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yes and it should have been 4 month cycles for years now they clearly cannot keep up with 3 months
this is better
Oh there is no doubt it's better development wise, and quality wise, but it is absolutely detrimental financially.
Having 3 legaues launch versus 4 leagues launch, is a multi-million dollar decison.
Probably. But it's hard to say that it's a better choice. The three month cycle gets you more leagues/league starts and I'm personally sold that the majority of their revenue happens within a week or two of launch (Before/After).
But some/many of the game launches have been so bad that they may have permanently alienated a notable amount of players. I would personally argue that they would be better off doing 3 leagues a year with events in the latter part of the league to pull players back, which may translate to 3 launches and 3 mini-launches. I have no idea if that is more revenue, but poor releases are universally hated. Some of us are more lenient of it, but none of us like it. It feels like bad faith to release a game knowing or expecting it to be as bad as some of the launches have gone.
Most leagues are about right at the 3rd/4th week, but how many have left before they achieve that right balance?
It's just all guessing, but I've always though the three-month cycle may superficially seem better financially, but the unintended consequences may compromise those gains.
Money aside (just for this discussion) if you go down that road then you have to review general player engagement over time as well. Its seems folks are not that interested 6 weeks out let alone what a 4 month cycle would bring. It would be a ghost town by that 4th month so what was the point?
From a quality and performance standpoint, probably 2 larger updates per year would be best. Its hard to keep people engaged for that long though, so its problematic.
Anyways it will be very interesting to see how timing goes once D4 is in its live service phase. I would guess they are going to be playing dodgeball constantly with their league dates.
"Better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak out and remove all doubt."
- Abraham Lincoln
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Posted byDarthSki44on Feb 16, 2023, 2:03:25 PM
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Money aside (just for this discussion) if you go down that road then you have to review general player engagement over time as well. Its seems folks are not that interested 6 weeks out let alone what a 4 month cycle would bring. It would be a ghost town by that 4th month so what was the point?
From a quality and performance standpoint, probably 2 larger updates per year would be best. Its hard to keep people engaged for that long though, so its problematic.
Anyways it will be very interesting to see how timing goes once D4 is in its live service phase. I would guess they are going to be playing dodgeball constantly with their league dates.
That's why I said to add planned events during the latter stages of each league. Everyone would benefit from a more reasonable release cycle, and those who get bored would get a mini-league start through an event of some sort. Hell, I would even support the idea that every other league is a known quantity like a legacy league and keeping the 3-month release cycle. Then your new releases are 6-month cycles. That's certainly not my personal preference, but it might scratch the itch for more people.
As for D4, I'm certainly not one of the doomsayers that think D4 will matter for an extended period of time. It will have impact like many other major releases have, but I don't think POE will have a dramatic drop that is earthshattering. POE survived and strived during D3, and I would argue that D3 was a more direct competitor with POE than D4 is, since D4 seems to be taking on a more MMO type open world gameplay w/ world boss events, etc.. I think that is a dramatic shift from traditional ARPGs and will matter. I will likely not be trying out D4 because that's a pretty big turnoff to me. D3 took on more WoW graphic styling and that got serious blowback. Taking on significant WoW gameplay elements will probably be worse.
Last edited by Nubatron on Feb 16, 2023, 2:15:06 PM
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Posted byNubatronon Feb 16, 2023, 2:14:00 PM
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Money aside (just for this discussion) if you go down that road then you have to review general player engagement over time as well. Its seems folks are not that interested 6 weeks out let alone what a 4 month cycle would bring. It would be a ghost town by that 4th month so what was the point?
From a quality and performance standpoint, probably 2 larger updates per year would be best. Its hard to keep people engaged for that long though, so its problematic.
Anyways it will be very interesting to see how timing goes once D4 is in its live service phase. I would guess they are going to be playing dodgeball constantly with their league dates.
That's why I said to add planned events during the latter stages of each league. Everyone would benefit from a more reasonable release cycle, and those who get bored would get a mini-league start through an event of some sort. Hell, I would even support the idea that every other league is a known quantity like a legacy league and keeping the 3-month release cycle. Then your new releases are 6-month cycles. That's certainly not my personal preference, but it might scratch the itch for more people.
As for D4, I'm certainly not one of the doomsayers that think D4 will matter for an extended period of time. It will have impact like many other major releases have, but I don't think POE will have a dramatic drop that is earthshattering. POE survived and strived during D3, and I would argue that D3 was a more direct competitor with POE than D4 is, since D4 seems to be taking on a more MMO type open world gameplay w/ world boss events, etc.. I think that is a dramatic shift from traditional ARPGs and will matter. I will likely not be trying out D4 because that's a pretty big turnoff to me. D3 took on more WoW graphic styling and that got serious blowback. Taking on significant WoW gameplay elements will probably be worse.
Personally I dont think events matter to people much in PoE. They've done things like this before, and the numbers aren't great. It's just not a viable solution imo.
As for D4, I suppose we will see. I do think that sometimes the really engaged PoE players (especially that post here or on reddit) fail to understand how many people there are on the fringes. And how many play because there are not great options otherwise. PoE is very player hostile, more so for newbies, but for anyone that is casual. Giving those players a next-gen option, with a franchise they are familiar with, is going to be big. Whether that lasts or not longer term, no one knows. But initially I wouldnt at all be surprised with 50% or more drop post launch.
"Better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak out and remove all doubt."
- Abraham Lincoln Last edited by DarthSki44 on Feb 16, 2023, 2:35:49 PM
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Posted byDarthSki44on Feb 16, 2023, 2:29:07 PM
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Personally I dont think events matter to people much in PoE. They've done things like this before, and the numbers aren't great. It's just not a viable solution imo.
As for D4, I suppose we will see. I do think that sometimes the really engaged PoE players (especially that post here or on reddit) fail to understand how many people there are on the fringes. And how many play because there are not great options otherwise. PoE is very player hostile, more so for newbies, but for anyone that is casual. Giving those players a next-gen option, with a franchise they are familiar with, is going to be big. Whether that lasts or not longer term, no one knows. But initially I wouldnt at all be surprised with 50% or more drop post launch.
You're thinking of events in the context of how they've handled them recently. I'm not talking about the last minute shoehorned nothing special events they've done as of late that only last a week at a time. I mean like 2-4 week event that is more appealing to a broader base -- meaning more mechanics or extremes, but not necessarily the more damage taken/projectiles/less damage gimping events that we've grown accustomed to. Events used to get more thought in my opinion a long while ago. As of late, they just feel lackluster like they were a side thought.
As for D4, you've jumped to the conclusion that their great alternative is an MMO like game that steals from an ARPG franchise? I have a feeling this will quickly fall into the same space as D3 as not a viable alternative for what they are looking for; and more specifically why they are still here.
Time will tell for sure. I gave D3 a chance. I'm in that category of not falling for that again -- especially since it looks like just another MMO.
Last edited by Nubatron on Feb 16, 2023, 3:01:08 PM
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Posted byNubatronon Feb 16, 2023, 2:59:48 PM
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As for D4, you've jumped to the conclusion that their great alternative is an MMO like game that steals from an ARPG franchise? I have a feeling this will quickly fall into the same space as D3 as not a viable alternative for what they are looking for; and more specifically why they are still here
Well I think you jumped at bit far too, saying Diablo is no longer an arpg but rather an MMO now, and consequently not a direct competitor to PoE.
That's some heavy spin imo, but let's see how it plays out real soon.
"Better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak out and remove all doubt."
- Abraham Lincoln Last edited by DarthSki44 on Feb 16, 2023, 3:08:28 PM
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Posted byDarthSki44on Feb 16, 2023, 3:08:05 PM
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As for D4, you've jumped to the conclusion that their great alternative is an MMO like game that steals from an ARPG franchise? I have a feeling this will quickly fall into the same space as D3 as not a viable alternative for what they are looking for; and more specifically why they are still here
Well I think you jumped at bit far too, saying Diablo is no longer an arpg but rather an MMO now, and consequently not a direct competitor to PoE.
That's some heavy spin imo, but let's see how it plays out real soon.
I never said it wasn't a competitor. Cyberpunk was competitor to POE. D4 just by name alone is a competitor. There are people who play POE and WoW. There is competition there as well. Open world, huge world boss battles and heavy multiplayer elements is more MMO than ARPG though.
My point is that the people who play POE do have options right now today, yet they choose to be here even if begrudgingly. A game that stepped further off the path of an ARPG rather than leaning in a bit is less of a competitor than D3. That's my point. Still competition. Probably same outcome as D3 with regards to POE.
Last edited by Nubatron on Feb 16, 2023, 3:16:57 PM
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Posted byNubatronon Feb 16, 2023, 3:12:38 PM
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My point is that the people who play POE do have options right now today, yet they choose to be here even if begrudgingly
No doubt there are other games are out there now, but I think it would be disengenous to say D4 is just some competitor, like Cyberpunk.
Its not that by a long shot. Maybe I'm dead wrong about this, but I think the Diablo crossover will be much more than what you are minimizing it to be. Granted that's speculative too, just what I think.
"Better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak out and remove all doubt."
- Abraham Lincoln Last edited by DarthSki44 on Feb 16, 2023, 3:27:51 PM
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Posted byDarthSki44on Feb 16, 2023, 3:27:13 PM
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My point is that the people who play POE do have options right now today, yet they choose to be here even if begrudgingly
No doubt there are other games are out there now, but I think it would be disengenous to say D4 is just some competitor, like Cyberpunk.
Its not that by a long shot. Maybe I'm dead wrong about this, but I think the Diablo crossover will be much more than what you are minimizing it to be. Granted that's speculative too, just what I think.
Interesting context you chose to quote.
This is all speculation of course for both of us. Time will tell.
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Posted byNubatronon Feb 16, 2023, 4:23:38 PM
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You will realize that the end of the next league is approximately around the same time as the exile con this year.
Probably means that we either get PoE 2 after the next league or a league after that cause they for sure want to keep up with D4.
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Yeah if D4 is any good... I likely won't be back to POE until POE2.
So I hope you're right on the POE2 being immediately following ExileCon, although I highly doubt it.
Just too many small things have piled up to discourage me with POE atm.
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Having 3 legaues launch versus 4 leagues launch, is a multi-million dollar decison.
Facts right there. They would release every 30-days if they could get away with it. 3 leagues instead of 4 = 1 full go of cosmetics not being sold, aka a 25% pay cut.
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Posted bykevin51287on Feb 16, 2023, 5:40:04 PM
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You nailed it early April.
I did not like this league and played a immense amount of POE the last 3 leagues so I don't mind taking the break.
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Posted byJradlot21on Feb 20, 2023, 11:20:27 AM
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