poe is still the most p2w game ive ever played

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Pashid wrote:

Poe would be p2w if you had to buy every expansion content with every league in order to play it.

no, that would just be pay to play. youre taking the "win" part of the name too literally. lost ark is absolutely a p2w game.. honestly didnt think anyone would think it wasnt. in the same vein, so are the stash tabs in poe

you pay money. for an advantage. the random examples you named are just a few ways it can be done

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yamface wrote:

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Pashid wrote:

Poe would be p2w if you had to buy every expansion content with every league in order to play it.

no, that would just be pay to play. youre taking the "win" part of the name too literally. lost ark is absolutely a p2w game.. honestly didnt think anyone would think it wasnt. in the same vein, so are the stash tabs in poe

you pay money. for an advantage. the random examples you named are just a few ways it can be done

It would be p2w if you had access to league specific content that is locked behind a paywall while a f2p player is just able to play the base game.

I've played La myself, and you don't get any benefits out of any payment.
You can buy gold and stuff, but is this really helpful in the end? It only shortens down the time you spend ingame, which is also counterproductive cause a game is supposed to keep you busy, and not burn you out because you paid your way to the end. even the big whales have to wait for the new content to come and by the time every f2p player is at the same item level with the amount of free stuff they hand out.

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yamface wrote:

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Pashid wrote:

Poe would be p2w if you had to buy every expansion content with every league in order to play it.

no, that would just be pay to play. youre taking the "win" part of the name too literally. lost ark is absolutely a p2w game.. honestly didnt think anyone would think it wasnt. in the same vein, so are the stash tabs in poe

you pay money. for an advantage. the random examples you named are just a few ways it can be done

The problem is your definition of pay 2 win/p2p.

It is very obvious by the different statements here, that most people consider pay 2 win in terms of "paying money as a driving factor in order to advance your characters progression relative to others". And here is where your whole argument falls flat, because, as mentioned earlier, its not the driving factor in PoE, it is knowledge and effectiveness.

Does anyone argue against the benefits of stash tabs? No, not at all. But in other games, especially gapcha, the amount of money you put in is the most important factor when it comes to your progression, while it is not in PoE. On top of that, it has a very low ceiling where further purchases quickly reach a lot of diminishing returns.

I once saw a definition about PoE which I was okay with too: "PoE is a game with the cost of an AAA-Title (a.k.a to buy the stash tabs) with an unlimited, unrestricted trial period".

But you still lack the ability to show how the correlation between more money and more wealth in PoE would occur at any point - because it doesnt, hence it´s not P2w.

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Vennto wrote:

The problem is your definition of pay 2 win/p2p.

It is very obvious by the different statements here, that most people consider pay 2 win in terms of "paying money as a driving factor in order to advance your characters progression relative to others". And here is where your whole argument falls flat, because, as mentioned earlier, its not the driving factor in PoE, it is knowledge and effectiveness.

Does anyone argue against the benefits of stash tabs? No, not at all. But in other games, especially gapcha, the amount of money you put in is the most important factor when it comes to your progression, while it is not in PoE. On top of that, it has a very low ceiling where further purchases quickly reach a lot of diminishing returns.

I once saw a definition about PoE which I was okay with too: "PoE is a game with the cost of an AAA-Title (a.k.a to buy the stash tabs) with an unlimited, unrestricted trial period".

But you still lack the ability to show how the correlation between more money and more wealth in PoE would occur at any point - because it doesnt, hence it´s not P2w.

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yamface wrote:

so if i logged into a random mobile game and bought a 1 time potion that permanently doubled my characters power, you dont think thats p2w?

so here is where your post falls flat: you think p2w requires a near endless investment scaling with money:results. it doesnt. see above block of test i wrote earlier

knowledge and effectiveness means nothing if you dont have the enabler. the stash tabs are the enabler. you seem to think just because there happens to be 1 extra ingredient to poe's case, that it suddenly excepts it from its p2w status. given 2 players with identical knowledge and skill but one having bought no stash tabs, the player who did buy them will gain more wealth. more wealth means he has access to more builds, and more access to stronger upgrades.

the point youre making is not really new in this thread. youre attempting to muddle the impact of stash tabs with a lot of other things that are really not that relevant to the stash tab impact itself.

you can say poe is the cost of a AAA game if you want, but you an apply the same mental gymnastics to just about everything really. i mean look at the guy right above you. the one thing i strongly agree with him at is how lost ark has heavy diminished returns on what money can really do in that game. but even so, its still regarded as a p2w game for most people. i too can carefully word things about lost ark in such a way that makes it sound like if i just invest X amount of dollars, im all set, and so its like a AAA game.

How many people killed maven without stash tabs?

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hasatt0 wrote:

How many people killed maven without stash tabs?

Pretty much a very large amount of all SSF player. Cause they aren't even able to earn currency via any tabs.
So about 19k characters are 90+ in SSF and ssfhc, and most will likely have a full atlas progression past that level. So approximately 6300 players assuming everyone has at least 3 high level characters. Along with all the unknown players in trade league who get along fine without any training/paid tab.

So idk, the p2w just simply doesn't exist in this game.
You could say pay to hoard more stuff, but that's more of a handy thing rather than a requirement. Nice to have but not a must have in order to accomplish anything in endgame.

POE is 100% p2w, feel exactly the same wearing a paid MTX in POE and use a paid 5star wifu in genshin impact, i feel winning.

this is p2w.

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Phrazz wrote:

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yamface wrote:

if you dont like -my- opinions, which you dont seem to, then feel free to not post in here! this isnt your thread...

So... You're posting on an online forum just to discuss with likeminded people agreeing with you? Describe what's wrong with the internet, without describing what's wrong with the internet.

Before you answer; who IS this thread for?

This thread is for OP, and this isn't their first time trying to make this argument. They want this to be true so badly.

This is starting to feel like an old man screams at cloud type of situation.

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so here is where your post falls flat: you think p2w requires a near endless investment scaling with money:results. it doesnt. see above block of test i wrote earlier

Well if it makes you happy: We can argue PoE is P2W, if you don´t care at all what amount of money required to get to the maximum level of possible availability and access to market/power. I for one don´t think this is even remotely fair, compared to how other games handle that and also in regards to your initial premise:

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poe is still the most p2w game ive ever played

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its a bit ironic that the one game that flaunts being "not pay to win" (as advertised in the poe website).. is more p2w than many major p2w titles themselves

Because u clearly focussed on the fact that for you PoE is the most pay to win ever. And just because you found two other examples which arent heavily monetized doesn´t mean that PoE is the worst there ever was. Take priston Tale 2 for example: There was literally no way to ever get to the highest level of gear without investing money, but you were able to trade those cash-shop-objectives for ingame-gold. Based on your logic this means it is not pay 2 win because you can reach the same point without money, but the fact of the matter is that if you invest money you reach it a lot faster AND there is no diminishing returns to it, hence the more u spend the stronger AND richer u are ingame, whereas both of it is not true in PoE.

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the point youre making is not really new in this thread. youre attempting to muddle the impact of stash tabs with a lot of other things that are really not that relevant to the stash tab impact itself.

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you can say poe is the cost of a AAA game if you want, but you an apply the same mental gymnastics to just about everything really. i mean look at the guy right above you. the one thing i strongly agree with him at is how lost ark has heavy diminished returns on what money can really do in that game. but even so, its still regarded as a p2w game for most people. i too can carefully word things about lost ark in such a way that makes it sound like if i just invest X amount of dollars, im all set, and so its like a AAA game.

I can´t speak to games I don´t know. I only play PoE at this point, and seeing that with 50€ I get all I ever need, even going into poe2 and the only thing holding me back to compete at the highest level is the skillcap and the time investment, I think this is a damn good deal. If you think otherwise, I don´t know how you imagine a game is supposed to be designed to be as fair as possible while still setting at least a small incentive to spend money on it in order to be able to feed game developers families.

If you get them on sale you could probably get every stash tab for under $100. Mr. Wilson needs fuel his mega yacht somehow. You can play this game for hundreds/thousands of hours so $100 is a deal.