What is the point playing PoE?

Come on - is "for fun" or "to achieve goals" the best you can do?
OP's question was obviously inviting to dive deeper into why it is still "fun" to keep playing after you've already seen/done all of the game content. If you're going to say you're just enjoying the process, that would again be too shallow. What makes you feel like you're enjoying it?

This might help: what do you think makes the D3 (which we know is a disaster) population keep playing it over and over again? They'd too be saying it's for fun etc. etc. But where does the fun really comes from? Hint: it's not really that different from what is driving the PoE folks.

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MorsExTenebris wrote:

This might help: what do you think makes the D3 (which we know is a disaster) population keep playing it over and over again?

No "we" do not know D3 is or was a disaster. Maybe it doesn't appeal to your gaming sensibilities, but for many tens of millions of others it was just fine for a decade, and why it still does ok during seasonal windows.

I get what you were trying to say, just no way an objective view of D3, by literally any measure, is disastrous.

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DarthSki44 wrote:

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MorsExTenebris wrote:

This might help: what do you think makes the D3 (which we know is a disaster) population keep playing it over and over again?

No "we" do not know D3 is or was a disaster. Maybe it doesn't appeal to your gaming sensibilities, but for many tens of millions of others it was just fine for a decade, and why it still does ok during seasonal windows.

I get what you were trying to say, just no way an objective view of D3, by literally any measure, is disastrous.

Well, D3 was supposed to build upon and overshadow its wildly popular predecessors, D1 and D2.

Objective and almost unanimous view of D1 and D2 fans was that it failed to do that, by literally any measure.

Instead, it was dumbified to the extreme, and, no surprise there, ended up catering to the lowest common denominator and Activision Blizzard great new managers' greed (see real money AH, etc.). This was followed by that gacha abomination of a mobile-to-PC Blizzard game with "Diablo" slapped on top of it recently, to further underline the fact that D3 design decisions were not an "accident" or "oversight".

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bgdmm wrote:

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DarthSki44 wrote:

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MorsExTenebris wrote:

This might help: what do you think makes the D3 (which we know is a disaster) population keep playing it over and over again?

No "we" do not know D3 is or was a disaster. Maybe it doesn't appeal to your gaming sensibilities, but for many tens of millions of others it was just fine for a decade, and why it still does ok during seasonal windows.

I get what you were trying to say, just no way an objective view of D3, by literally any measure, is disastrous.

Well, D3 was supposed to build upon and overshadow its wildly popular predecessors, D1 and D2.

Objective and almost unanimous view of D1 and D2 fans was that it failed to do that, by literally any measure.

Instead, it was dumbified to the extreme, and, no surprise there, ended up catering to the lowest common denominator and Activision Blizzard great new managers' greed (see real money AH, etc.). This was followed by that gacha abomination of a mobile-to-PC Blizzard game with "Diablo" slapped on top of it recently, to further underline the fact that D3 design decisions were not an "accident" or "oversight".

Sorry but this isnt even remotely accurate. I'm sure there were folks that didnt like D3, and it did have a bumpy start. But it went on to sell 65+ million copies, had a very successful RoS expansion, created some fantastic console ports (I actually prefer PS5 version of D3), and the seasons still get decent participation.

Objectively speaking (not someone's viewpoint) D3 was one of the most successful games of all time.

I understand this urge for some of the more elite PoE players to hate on Blizzard or D3, which is fine btw, it's ok to dislike the game, but you cannot exist in a different reality of what actually happened. D3 was wildly, historically, successful.

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DarthSki44 wrote:

Sorry but this isnt even remotely accurate. I'm sure there were folks that didnt like D3, and it did have a bumpy start. But it went on to sell 65+ million copies, had a very successful RoS expansion, created some fantastic console ports (I actually prefer PS5 version of D3), and the seasons still get decent participation.

Objectively speaking (not someone's viewpoint) D3 was one of the most successful games of all time.

I understand this urge for some of the more elite PoE players to hate on Blizzard or D3, which is fine btw, it's ok to dislike the game, but you cannot exist in a different reality of what actually happened. D3 was wildly, historically, successful.

It's not necessarily an elitist view to hate on D3. I enjoyed D3 for the temporary arcade like gameplay that it offered and if I remove myself from the D2 hope that I had, it was worth the cost. But it is hard to remove the expectation that it was supposed to be the next evolution of D2, and it did not feel like that at all.

Anyone who looks at D3 objectively would clearly see that it was a success by most measures. But subjectively with the D2 lens on, I felt like it failed to evolve and improve on the Diablo franchise. I think the issue is when people confuse what was objectively a success with their personal view that it was subjectively a failure.

I view it as a failure with respect to what I hoped it would be. Objectively though, it was a huge success from a monetary standpoint.

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Nubatron wrote:

I think the issue is when people confuse what was objectively a success with their personal view that it was subjectively a failure.

I view it as a failure with respect to what I hoped it would be. Objectively though, it was a huge success from a monetary standpoint.

I agree on the first point. A game you dont like is perfectly capable of doing well in spite of what you think of it.

The second point, I think it would also be objectively fair to say that D3 was a financial success as well as a player experience success. You personally may have wanted more, but it was still widely accepted and praised. The retention was good, and the expansions and seasons performed to expectations and beyond.

To be honest, other than personal opinions on how the game is shallow to some, or is lacking some tangible darkness (if you hate the more cartoony version), there isnt much to be critical about with D3 objectively.

Subjectively speaking, yeah there are a ton of things you could hit on, but that's true for almost any game.

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DarthSki44 wrote:

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Objectively speaking (not someone's viewpoint) D3 was one of the most successful games of all time.
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It all depends on how you define successful. In your case it looks like you're putting sales volumes above everything else. Well, then Diablo Immortal must be very successful too, is it not? An absolute role model for both D4 and PoE2, huh? :)

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DarthSki44 wrote:

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Nubatron wrote:

I think the issue is when people confuse what was objectively a success with their personal view that it was subjectively a failure.

I view it as a failure with respect to what I hoped it would be. Objectively though, it was a huge success from a monetary standpoint.

I agree on the first point. A game you dont like is perfectly capable of doing well in spite of what you think of it.

The second point, I think it would also be objectively fair to say that D3 was a financial success as well as a player experience success. You personally may have wanted more, but it was still widely accepted and praised. The retention was good, and the expansions and seasons performed to expectations and beyond.

To be honest, other than personal opinions on how the game is shallow to some, or is lacking some tangible darkness (if you hate the more cartoony version), there isnt much to be critical about with D3 objectively.

Subjectively speaking, yeah there are a ton of things you could hit on, but that's true for almost any game.

That's the thing about subjectivity, I think there is plenty to be critical of D3 for. And I'm 100% right without question, because it's relative to what I wanted and expected.

I don't pretend to speak for all players and I wouldn't pretend to know what the majority think or say. I can only speak for me on this point, which is that it felt like a failure.

That was the underlying meaning of the 2nd point you took exception to. You're welcome to take exception to that, but I'm right for one main reason: it's relative to how I felt about the game. Unless you are intimately familiar with me in ways that even I can't grasp, I doubt you can question or even disagree with that point :)

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MorsExTenebris wrote:

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DarthSki44 wrote:

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Objectively speaking (not someone's viewpoint) D3 was one of the most successful games of all time.
...

It all depends on how you define successful. In your case it looks like you're putting sales volumes above everything else. Well, then Diablo Immortal must be very successful too, is it not? An absolute role model for both D4 and PoE2, huh? :)

Well sales & revenue are a big part of it no? Metrics(sales, concurrency, retention) do matter because they directly tie to the financials. I suppose you could use metacritic, or reddit, or the forums to generally gauge how a game "feels" but that gets was more subjective than objective.

D3 also performs well on the technical side. The game is polished, smooth, the combat and skills are fluid. There are no bugs really to speak of, and the UI and menus screens are player friendly.

Post launch, It's worth noting that the Reaper of Souls expansion, and their seasonal model continued to drive player engagement. Combined with the console ports I mentioned prior, it certainly appears players enjoyed the game.

I dont exactly know what measurement or benchmarks you are using to define "successful", but feel free to detail what that might be since you didnt include that in your reply.

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DarthSki44 wrote:

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I dont exactly know what measurement or benchmarks you are using to define "successful", but feel free to detail what that might be since you didnt include that in your reply.

Wow, we really did get carried away from the original topic of the thread.

But sure, here's why I don't believe D3 was successful as both a project and a product:

• D3’s initial sales were mainly driven by the success of its predecessor (D2) – ie. by what people had been hoping D3 would be as opposed to what it actually ended up being at launch.
• Shortly after release players started quitting in droves, which indicates that D3 failed to fulfil their expectations, and hence failed to become a true successor to D2 & D1. (= turned away loyal customers)
• The success of PoE is another indirect evidence of D3’s failure (= created new leaders in the market segment)
• The high attrition of employees involved with D3 at Blizzard also tells us things weren’t well in that department. People of all ranks and levels kept coming and going, incl. their community managers – not an attribute of a successful project :)
• Updates to the game (since RoS) have been minor and few, which is indicative of its “dog” position in Blizzard’s portfolio (again, doesn’t sound like a success story to me).

And it does not bode well for D4 either. The negative halo of D3 and “Toilet Diablo” (aka DI) have very good chances to mar the launch of D4. There is a significant risk it might flop, so I would not recommend pre-purchasing it (they may have to reduce its price soon after release, in case the game fails to attract enough attention).