melee weapons VASTLY harder to craft than casters......

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Xzorn wrote:

Base melee weapons have 32 different affixes while wands have 56.
You're over here counting Tiers, ignoring many of those affixes are bricks for wands.


I've been a 2/3 melee player since this game started. There's no difference between high end melee and caster items except caster has been more expensive since no one plays melee.
You're talking about 179% Phys so I'm not sure we're even talking to same bracket.

I've been on melee strike past 3 leagues. Not because of itemization but because of game design. They took away nearly every advantage melee had to survive giving nothing in return.

I'm not dealing with this trash Fortify design or boring Shield / Abysus situation anymore. Esp when my Deadeye comically had 21-51% Less damage taken and wasn't reliant on damage output.

Frost Armor + Wind Ward putting Fortify to shame. Such stupid design.

"over counting tiers" what a convenient way of trying to make an invalid point.

the weight to get t1 in % phys is half the weight to get it on +1 to all spell gems. the weightto get t2 is equal. and there are TWO mods like that for a melee physical weapon.

no one is counting mods it's in your head. i am counting weights and probability. and it is astonishing that some people would argue against something LITERALLY written and can be googled up in 3 seconds.

the probability is the problem, the fact that more than one mod should be present adn each of those mods have the LOWEST probability in the game. is the problem. it is not and those probabilities are not a subject for discussion because THEY ARE not a "theory" they are there takes you 2 seconds to poedb it.

also why do you people say shit that is not true. things you can check in 1 min. who the heck said high end caster items are more expensive? where do you invent this stuff? a perfect prefix wand is literally 5-15 TIMES cheaper than a NON-PERFECT prefixes staff.

pleae, just use poe trade and price check before you say things like that.

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punyavee wrote:

"

Xzorn wrote:

Base melee weapons have 32 different affixes while wands have 56.
You're over here counting Tiers, ignoring many of those affixes are bricks for wands.


I've been a 2/3 melee player since this game started. There's no difference between high end melee and caster items except caster has been more expensive since no one plays melee.
You're talking about 179% Phys so I'm not sure we're even talking to same bracket.

I've been on melee strike past 3 leagues. Not because of itemization but because of game design. They took away nearly every advantage melee had to survive giving nothing in return.

I'm not dealing with this trash Fortify design or boring Shield / Abysus situation anymore. Esp when my Deadeye comically had 21-51% Less damage taken and wasn't reliant on damage output.

Frost Armor + Wind Ward putting Fortify to shame. Such stupid design.

Yeah, I currently play heavy strike, I'm feel like that as well. It's not just itemization but it's everything that punnish melee.

To be honest, it's still kinda playable but other builds are a lot better at doing same thing.

exactly, itemization is not the only problem but fixing the whole thing should start somewhere. and the easiest things they can fix is itemization and our ancestral-totems dependency.

in your example "heavy strike" or most strikes as well as slams for example in have a positioning problem. you can't avoid the fact that your char needs to stand in shit in order to kill shit. if you play cyclone "just for the sake of comparison" or flicker or static strike you will notice that the things that kill you are less because you never need to stand for long and repeatedly.

but then again i'd rather they start from ANYWHERE, so i am fine if they start from itemization and moving totems power to baseline.

1

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Baharoth15 wrote:

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zaarakiekenpachi wrote:

"

Baharoth15 wrote:

Spell wands are easier to craft on the low end but thats pretty much it. +2 wands with crit, crit multi and cast speed are just as hard as comparable melee weapons. Spells have the upside of having most of their power baked into the gem allowing them to go far even with a trash wand while melee needs decent weapons to do so however, melee has strong unique options available making it possible to achieve tens of millions of dps with a 3 div weapon where spells have to bury dozens of divines to craft or buy wands and amulets with all the stats they need. It all comes down to making a choice and playing it to its strenghts. Sadly most people are too stupid to think for themselves and utterly fail at that. Instead they get obsessed with poe ninja numbers and cry in forums.

son, when you say "wands with crit and crit multi are as hard to craft as melee weapons" you already show enough ignorance. it's like you have no idea what is crafting and yet you insult other people for "creating forum posts"

I didn't say that, you just can't read. And you shouldn't call people son when you don't know their age. I've crafted plenty of both kinds so i actually know what i am talking about from experience. If you only compare +2 skill (which only has 1 tier) to 2 x tier 1 phys then yeah you have a point. But anyone with a brain can realise that it's a point with zero relevance. You don't consider the total product or the impact of the indivdual parts at all.

actually i compared a 3 prefix perfect wand vs a 3 NON-PERFECT prefix weapon. and yea the perfect wand is much easier and cheaper than the non-perfect staff.

i think that you are the one who can't read. and no you have never in your life crafted a near perfect melee phys weapon.
i have, and that's how i know why they sell 10 - 15 times the price of a +1 + 1 and 90% + wand.

and i pointed out that the other problem is that the prefixes on that wand which you can craft easily with +2 and 90% will still give you most of the power potential of which prefixes can give. although it's much easier to craft.

also just to point out something back in your first response, you say you have to burry tons of currency to craft your amulet as a caster? well at least you have such an option lol. i wish i could use a +2 amulet as a melee and get a few millions dps boost out of it. would help me get defense from other places.

anyone doubting weapons (phys especially) are insanely hard to craft simply has no clue

- phys weapons need precise set of 4 affixes. they are local and multiply on eachother.

+phys
%phys
%attack speed
%phys hybrid

you cannot skip on any (if you want great weapon ofc, but this is what this thread is about, right?).

there is no flexibility here. scaling is very sharp so T3 or T4 rolls for all of them mean a crafting result that is barely better than unique alternatives, yet even that is absurdly hard to achieve due to insanely low weights assigned to %phys and +phys

ofc the 'smart' choice is to buy a T1 %fracture and spam essences (+flat of %aspd) and wait for a miracle. given the prices that miracle is f.. difficult to hit

(hint: you are still better with STR stacking. there is no weapon in the game that can match STR stacking with 1c BLS and getting required STR is still cheaper. ofc BattleMagesCry + Replica Warpath etc setup BLOWS perfect phys weapon out of the water despite costing a fraction of that.)



on the other hand caster weapon is a pick and choose buffet. rolls are global, so they do not interact so strongly with eachother (+100% spell from wand might mean little if your build already has 600% increased). and you can craft +2 wands semi-deterministically. +2 items listed on trade site exploit people who are unaware of that.

saddest part of that is that you can simply use blue +1 wand and kill ubers not really noticing a difference, even if equipping a proper wand means 50%-100% more damage.


there is a reason people going for efficiency skip melee altogether. it can work (altho 'works perfectly, sans ubers..' is not 'working' since GGG put chase items there).

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Johny_Snow wrote:

Imagine crafting something for 20 mirrors then selling it for 2.
Oh wait, the OP is one of the "melee sucks" crew, that figures

No one stupid enough to sell their mirror-tiered items for 2 mirrors.
They only do mirror service to earn back their 20 mirrors cost.

Usually this work would be done with teams.

"

zaarakiekenpachi wrote:

"

Xzorn wrote:

Base melee weapons have 32 different affixes while wands have 56.
You're over here counting Tiers, ignoring many of those affixes are bricks for wands.


I've been a 2/3 melee player since this game started. There's no difference between high end melee and caster items except caster has been more expensive since no one plays melee.
You're talking about 179% Phys so I'm not sure we're even talking to same bracket.

I've been on melee strike past 3 leagues. Not because of itemization but because of game design. They took away nearly every advantage melee had to survive giving nothing in return.

I'm not dealing with this trash Fortify design or boring Shield / Abysus situation anymore. Esp when my Deadeye comically had 21-51% Less damage taken and wasn't reliant on damage output.

Frost Armor + Wind Ward putting Fortify to shame. Such stupid design.

"over counting tiers" what a convenient way of trying to make an invalid point.

the weight to get t1 in % phys is half the weight to get it on +1 to all spell gems. the weightto get t2 is equal. and there are TWO mods like that for a melee physical weapon.

no one is counting mods it's in your head. i am counting weights and probability. and it is astonishing that some people would argue against something LITERALLY written and can be googled up in 3 seconds.

Because you're using it in a very bias manner.

You can roll Cruel T3 and Conq T3 both at 100 weight for 210-220% Physical damage while +1 all Spells is 50. I don't know why you're so up on the 179% roll Tier 1 when melee 200%+ double rolls which you don't need T1 for is what you want.

You're also ignoring the massive gap rolled Wand Suffixes have Vs Crafted.

Melee Suffix:

Suffix Roll Vs Craft
Crit Chance: 38 Vs 27
Crit Multi: 38 Vs 28
Atk Speed: 19 Vs 13

Wand Suffix

Suffix Roll Vs Craft
Crit for Spells: 109 Vs 69
Crit Multi: 38 Vs 28
Cast Speed: 32 Vs 21

You lose a lot more potential stats trying to metacraft a wand over a melee weapon.

Perfect Melee roll is 50 + 25 + 200 + 1000 + 1000 + 500 = 2,775
Perfect Wand roll is 50 + 230 + 45 + 1000 + 1000 + 250 = 2,575

A perfect roll wand has less probability than perfect roll weapon. The only difference here is that wands can be "a little" more flexible. You keep putting emphasis on +1 / +1 when Cast Speed can be far more potent than +1, which is something you can't craft at high value. At the same time Melee can go Rainbow damage if it fits your build making things far easier.

So again, not much difference on high end itemization.
The difference is how dependent melee is on the stats of a weapon and even further, much of this is just the sorry state of the game making Crit melee the only option.

"

Melee Suffix:

Suffix Roll Vs Craft
Crit Chance: 38 Vs 27
Crit Multi: 38 Vs 28
Atk Speed: 19 Vs 13

that is for bows?

because for melee weapons you can get 30% attack speed via essence

crit chance is meaningless, same as multi. you can get it from other sources

what matters is 4 affixes: %phys, %hybrid, +flat, %aspd

these 4 are local and multiply on eachother. crit you can boost via Slayer, AssMark, chest and plethora of other sources. these 4 base stats cannot be augmented in any way so focus on them as they make 95% of the weapon's power

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sidtherat wrote:

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Melee Suffix:

Suffix Roll Vs Craft
Crit Chance: 38 Vs 27
Crit Multi: 38 Vs 28
Atk Speed: 19 Vs 13

that is for bows?

because for melee weapons you can get 30% attack speed via essence

crit chance is meaningless, same as multi. you can get it from other sources

what matters is 4 affixes: %phys, %hybrid, +flat, %aspd

these 4 are local and multiply on eachother. crit you can boost via Slayer, AssMark, chest and plethora of other sources. these 4 base stats cannot be augmented in any way so focus on them as they make 95% of the weapon's power

Those stats are less impactful but my original response said there's little difference in itemization when it comes to high end rolls. OP replied with a simple "Nope".

I was just using drop rolls and craft bench as to not over complicate comparisons, esp when the subject is weighted results. I'm aware how melee multiplicative interaction works. Though talking about bows it's curious OP doesn't have the same complaint. Bow rolls are all local as well.

I suppose too many players are doing CoC to care.
The only perk that comes to mind over melee is projectile speed can directly relate to DPS.

"

sidtherat wrote:

crit chance is meaningless, same as multi. you can get it from other sources

what matters is 4 affixes: %phys, %hybrid, +flat, %aspd

Putting your ignorance on display again. No, wonder your melee builds are all hard stuck at <2 mio dps. Even if there are other sources, not everyone is playing slayer and with weapon crit being local the effect is massive especially with all the crit multi melèe can have. This isnt some global increased mod you know?

Meanwhile dictators and mercilless do not multiply with each other, where the hell did that nonsense come from? They are additive. Obviously tripple t1 phys is every melee players wet dream but its not all there is to melèe scaling and as xzorn pointed out, you can easily get 200+ increased with lower tier mods. Having 250 instead of 200% local increased isnt going to skyrock your damage.