melee weapons VASTLY harder to craft than casters......

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Phrazz wrote:

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Johny_Snow wrote:

Oh wait, the OP is one of the "melee sucks" crew, that figures

Melee does suck. The numbers in the 10 latest leagues do not lie. I actually want to see a list of Uber/wave 30/100% Deli-beating builds since the introduction of those mechanics. It would be an interesting view. Sure, there will be some melee builds on there, but how many compared to the rest? How many spell skills, how many bow skills, how many melee skills. When every other melee build you see, is either str stacking or dex stacking, you know that weapon scaling (90%(?) of melee builds) is in a bad state.

You can climb Kilimanjaro in sandals. Doesn't mean sandals is a good choice.

oh come on man melee is fine...as long as you don't play it...

i don't think the odds are equal for melee and caster "high end" and that's going just by the numbers shown on sites like poedb "because we can see the actual weights of the mods anyway in comparison to the total pool"

but that's not even the point. lets say for example you have a wand with 2 perfect prefixes. and the 3rd prefix is literal garbage. and a melee 'specifically physical weapon" with 2 good prefixes only.

the 2 prefixes that's most important for casters are:

1- easier to craft "again based on weights in website you can see this"
2- will get you much closer to the 3 prefixes caster weapon potential compared to a melee phys weapon.

in comparison a melee phys weapon with 2 perfectprefixes is about 25% weaker than one with 3 perfect prefixes "in this case i did not include the phys accuracy roll since it's weakest.

there is also the fact that all prefixes, useful or useless share the exact same "tags"for a phys melee weapon for example "as in physical and attack".
in the other hand, casters for example if you want to roll +1 fire for a wand, well the +1 fire is the only +1 with fire. and yes there are other "fire tag" mods that could take place but also not as many or at least not as low probability.
so lets say we now have something like "lower chance to roll attack mods" somehow maybe from a fossil now your options are limited to %increased fire damage, fire dmg to spells and +1 fire gems. that does not even count for the fact that the % fire dmg might not even be bad in this scenario and would be nice to have that wand with +1 +1 and a mid tier % fire damage roll. and yet if you manage to land +1 +1 and fire dmg to spells you can still call it VERY GOOD

melee weapons do not have that luxury, specifically because of 2 mods. physical damage leeched as mana and as life. and probably removing them will make things a little too easy so it might not be a solution too. but it does not change the problem that a caster can get a way with 50% increased fire damage as one of the 3 prefixes. a melee can't get a way with 80% increased physical damage prefix instead of 150%-179%. the weapon at 80% is literally a weapon that you would carry and delete. even if the other 2 mods are t1.

also just because "crafters know better" it does not mean we can't see the problem. nor does it mean crafting a 80% of perfect melee weapon should be impossible for 99.99% of the player base. there is also the fact that there are leagues where the +1 to all spells can be crafted easier with things like imprint beast because the +1 "specific" gems is of a much higher chance to roll.

all that said there is also the problem that if something is not popular, no one is crafting enough of it. so playing the whole class type or weapon type becomes a gamble. this is not al imitation of which chris talked about "it's ok for somethings to be strong for specific content" this is a limitation to a whole genre.

one simple example here is staves, when i am trying to play staves. the market is always limited to VERY FEW trash weapons for 30-50 divines or half bench crafted weapons for 100-200 diviners or imperfect weapons for mirroring.

as of now for example staves above 900pdps i can see staves with p1p1 p5 "prefixes" and crafted suffixes. for 130 divines.if i remove the "eventuality rod implicit" because i want block staves there are 5 staves in the market now. ALL Of which got 50-70% bench crafted or far from perfect. and one is for almost a mirror when it is not even 70% complete.
if i include offline the whole league's got 11 staves of this block implicit type. THE BEST STAFF which was "mirrored before" is P1 P2 P0"OF essence" and crafted suffixes.

WHY on earth is this a mirror material ? and the guy apparently went down to 230 divines later to "try and sell it" or something and he is stuck with it lol.

why on earth is a staff with imperfect prefixes, bench crafted suffixes the best thing i can ever get in the whole league?

back to the wand example and looking in poe trade, +1 +1 fire wand with t0 essencce spell damage is 45 divines ? like seriously TRIPLE PERFECT prefixes wand is 45 divines and FAR from perfect staff is nearly a mirror ?

hell, +1 +1 wand with a "trash 3rd prefix" like fire damage to spell, 1 divine - 10 divines. you are getting more than 80% of he weapon prefix potential for FREE.

if this can't tell you there is a problem i don't know what will.

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TemjinGold wrote:

The people who actually craft these things are much better crafters than you. No one is crafting in such a way where the 2 T1 prefixes cost them 20 mirrors.

it is not about the crafting method

and it is easy to see the difference between prices which gives you an idea of how hard is it to craft.

+1 +1 and t0 "essence crafted wand" is from 4 to 15 times cheaper than the staves i am trying to buy. that's how hard is it to craft them and how low is the demand to make it worth it .

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Johny_Snow wrote:

Imagine crafting something for 20 mirrors then selling it for 2.

Oh wait, the OP is one of the "melee sucks" crew, that figures

i will pretend that your sentence makes sense, beside the fact that you don't get that the '20 divines" was an example of how it is nearly impossible to craft the perfect weapon.

i have one response to you:

the "melee sucks" group is actually at least 90-95% of the community. which includes almost all streamers and probably part of ggg developers team. also people don't play melee to "riot against ggg" they play melee because it's the only way they enjoy the game. so why on earth would you have a problem with people just asking ggg to balance the only way for them to enjoy the game lol.

what's your problem ? lol

melees do suck, and ppl who disagreeare the minority, that explains enough how you and you are wrong and your toxic behavior is as well.

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Xzorn wrote:

Low to Mid range attack weapons yea. High end, they're all the same.

There's no room for affixes on any type.
Melee climbs to steeper side but it's the same mountain.

just nope

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Phrazz wrote:

"

Johny_Snow wrote:

Oh wait, the OP is one of the "melee sucks" crew, that figures

Melee does suck. The numbers in the 10 latest leagues do not lie. I actually want to see a list of Uber/wave 30/100% Deli-beating builds since the introduction of those mechanics. It would be an interesting view. Sure, there will be some melee builds on there, but how many compared to the rest? How many spell skills, how many bow skills, how many melee skills. When every other melee build you see, is either str stacking or dex stacking, you know that weapon scaling (90%(?) of melee builds) is in a bad state.

You can climb Kilimanjaro in sandals. Doesn't mean sandals is a good choice.

you probably would see melees in the top end. sadly though MOST if not all of them are gonna be some Armour stackers or strength stackers. it's like abusing an op mechanic to play the game is the only way.

although i don't even consider strength stackers "melee" because they can literally play anything lol you use almost the same gear and you can play anything that's unhealthy for the game.

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Baharoth15 wrote:

Spell wands are easier to craft on the low end but thats pretty much it. +2 wands with crit, crit multi and cast speed are just as hard as comparable melee weapons. Spells have the upside of having most of their power baked into the gem allowing them to go far even with a trash wand while melee needs decent weapons to do so however, melee has strong unique options available making it possible to achieve tens of millions of dps with a 3 div weapon where spells have to bury dozens of divines to craft or buy wands and amulets with all the stats they need. It all comes down to making a choice and playing it to its strenghts. Sadly most people are too stupid to think for themselves and utterly fail at that. Instead they get obsessed with poe ninja numbers and cry in forums.

son, when you say "wands with crit and crit multi are as hard to craft as melee weapons" you already show enough ignorance. it's like you have no idea what is crafting and yet you insult other people for "creating forum posts"


no one cares about how are we gonna craft "crit and crit multi" on the suffix. that's literally the easiest part of crafting ANYTHING lol

what matters is the 3 prefixes, the desired 3 prefixes for a wand is being sold for 10-40 divines. for some melee weapons it is no less than 200 divines. and it's not like you can play a melee weapon without attack speed and probably crit suffixes.

Base melee weapons have 32 different affixes while wands have 56.
You're over here counting Tiers, ignoring many of those affixes are bricks for wands.


I've been a 2/3 melee player since this game started. There's no difference between high end melee and caster items except caster has been more expensive since no one plays melee.
You're talking about 179% Phys so I'm not sure we're even talking to same bracket.

I've been on melee strike past 3 leagues. Not because of itemization but because of game design. They took away nearly every advantage melee had to survive giving nothing in return.

I'm not dealing with this trash Fortify design or boring Shield / Abysus situation anymore. Esp when my Deadeye comically had 21-51% Less damage taken and wasn't reliant on damage output.

Frost Armor + Wind Ward putting Fortify to shame. Such stupid design.

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Xzorn wrote:

Base melee weapons have 32 different affixes while wands have 56.
You're over here counting Tiers, ignoring many of those affixes are bricks for wands.


I've been a 2/3 melee player since this game started. There's no difference between high end melee and caster items except caster has been more expensive since no one plays melee.
You're talking about 179% Phys so I'm not sure we're even talking to same bracket.

I've been on melee strike past 3 leagues. Not because of itemization but because of game design. They took away nearly every advantage melee had to survive giving nothing in return.

I'm not dealing with this trash Fortify design or boring Shield / Abysus situation anymore. Esp when my Deadeye comically had 21-51% Less damage taken and wasn't reliant on damage output.

Frost Armor + Wind Ward putting Fortify to shame. Such stupid design.

Yeah, I currently play heavy strike, I'm feel like that as well. It's not just itemization but it's everything that punnish melee.

To be honest, it's still kinda playable but other builds are a lot better at doing same thing.

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zaarakiekenpachi wrote:

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Baharoth15 wrote:

Spell wands are easier to craft on the low end but thats pretty much it. +2 wands with crit, crit multi and cast speed are just as hard as comparable melee weapons. Spells have the upside of having most of their power baked into the gem allowing them to go far even with a trash wand while melee needs decent weapons to do so however, melee has strong unique options available making it possible to achieve tens of millions of dps with a 3 div weapon where spells have to bury dozens of divines to craft or buy wands and amulets with all the stats they need. It all comes down to making a choice and playing it to its strenghts. Sadly most people are too stupid to think for themselves and utterly fail at that. Instead they get obsessed with poe ninja numbers and cry in forums.

son, when you say "wands with crit and crit multi are as hard to craft as melee weapons" you already show enough ignorance. it's like you have no idea what is crafting and yet you insult other people for "creating forum posts"

I didn't say that, you just can't read. And you shouldn't call people son when you don't know their age. I've crafted plenty of both kinds so i actually know what i am talking about from experience. If you only compare +2 skill (which only has 1 tier) to 2 x tier 1 phys then yeah you have a point. But anyone with a brain can realise that it's a point with zero relevance. You don't consider the total product or the impact of the indivdual parts at all.