This game still makes no sense to me no matter how long i play

Sorry, I made another 'assuming native speaker' thing there.

I wasn't being sarcastic, but not literal either. A tongue-in-cheek appeal to a Ruler's authority, perhaps.

Anyway, she's no idiot. Believe me or don't. :)

I dunno man, I asked a question there you might be able to help with.
If I like a game, it'll either be amazing later or awful forever. There's no in-between.

I am Path of Exile's biggest whale. Period.
Last edited by Foreverhappychan#4626 on Jan 24, 2023, 10:17:08 AM
"
Foreverhappychan wrote:
I dunno man, I asked a question there you might be able to help with.


I think the term "tank" is fairly misplaced in PoE.

First off: Chris has been VERY direct throughout the years: A good character is a character with great clear speed and great damage. He's all about the "throw as many dice (Dices? Die? Dice?) as you can each minute. A slow and tanky character indirectly becomes a bad (or worse) character.

PoE is designed around character not having a ceiling. You CAN scale the damage more or less indefinite. Damage is king, as they say (or am I thinking about "cash" here?).

That's why I think "tank" is misplaced. A "tank", as I've learned the term, is a character designed to tank damage for others. In PoE, because of my previous paragraph, an aura/curse support will always be better than a support designed to tank.

Now, "tank killers" do exist. It's called "juiced mapping" or heavy altar farming (100% delirious and so on). Or "hardcore". There's a room/purpose for well-rounded characters, and there's a purpose for glass cannon builds. But a "tank"? Not really. Why? Well, the moment you can survive 'anything', there's really no game left - or at least no risk.

I don't know if I even answered your questions as much as I got to empty my head.
Bring me some coffee and I'll bring you a smile.
That was a great answer, if only because it helped you empty your head (of something you didn't want stuck in there, I hope).

I remember saying something once to a dev (not Chris, I think it was Carl or maybe Mark1) that I felt DPS should be included in EHP and they agreed. This isn't necessarily a refutation of the viability of tanks in PoE (or indeed any ARPG), but it is an interesting added angle. I'm completely ignorant as to what made me say that but I'm sure I believed it at the time. I'm also sure I was talking about a very different PoE than what exists today, maybe one where, briefly or otherwise, defence was more favoured than offence. Probably somewhere around the Shavronne's Wrapping meta, perhaps, which was easily one of the most defensive metas I've seen given it gave players that final missing piece to make a character that could significantly mitigate all types of damage.

PS Die. Or as Reaper would say, Die. Die. Die.
If I like a game, it'll either be amazing later or awful forever. There's no in-between.

I am Path of Exile's biggest whale. Period.
Last edited by Foreverhappychan#4626 on Jan 24, 2023, 12:14:40 PM
"
Foreverhappychan wrote:
PS Die.


Feels like I'm about to. Just ate a Burger King meal for the first time in like... 10 years and I feel sick.

Anyhow, one thing to throw into this debate is softcore vs hardcore, the amount of portals and the XP penalty. Just forget that I used the word "one" in the start of that sentence. Why should anyone build a "tank", playing solo in a game mode where you have "six lives" each map? Dying in PoE these days, is "barely an inconvenience", and people even want that trifle of an inconvenience to go away.
Bring me some coffee and I'll bring you a smile.
You don't have six portals in: Delve, Sanctum, Heist, Ultimatum (still around but very rare) and probably something I forgot. You waste time and can fail mechanics like Alva, Blight, Breach and probably something I forgot if you die too much. Also, that big thing that killed you (Metamorph, Syndicate member, etc.) can camp the portal and kill you again and again in some cases
"
Foreverhappychan wrote:
"
Nubatron wrote:
"
Phrazz wrote:


I'm not a native English speaker, and should probably be the last one to critique grammar mistakes, but using "could of" instead of "could've/could have" is a very common mistake I see A LOT and it makes no sense to me.


Spoiler
I think it's because of how it sounds when spoken. Could've when spoken sounds a lot like could of and so for some, it gets engrained as could of rather than could've. Once they've made that connection, it's hard to undo when you get around to writing it.

I'm not defending it; just describing a path for which it might happen.
Spoiler


As usual, it's the responses that grant the GD thread something worth discussing!

https://www.merriam-webster.com/words-at-play/whats-worse-than-coulda

Some people think it's a recent phenom, but nope -- this one goes all the way back to the 1700s. That said, for most of the time it's appeared in print, it seems to be done with the intention of portraying someone with a limited intellect or education level.

Now we all know C-Doggy is anything but that, being one of the more verifiable POE galaxy brains around here who is also a native English speaker, so it's best to assume it's a deliberate affectation to put you off-guard. I have seen her type perfectly well more than once, so yeah, it's an act. You probably didn't need to be told that, but there it is. She is not making a mistake; she is projecting a persona.

Unless two extra keystrokes are that important to her...I suppose that's also possible. Y'all Exiles are all about Eile über alles.

In which case 'coulda' is even better: three keystrokes saved!

That all said, I have caught myself typing 'then' rather than 'than' even when writing 'properly' when the fingers overtake the brain so I think it's possible to make 'verbal' typos even with typing. Probably just from seeing so many people make that mistake (and confusing then and than is absolutely a mistake). Garbage In, Garbage Out as they say. I really should spend less time on the less erudite corners of the Internet but eh, how else am I going to look in the mirror in the morning and not see nothing but an overgrown child prodigy?

__

I'm not so mean as to say 'if your tank died it clearly wasn't tanky enough' because if it served as a tank in all other ways, then it's probably on the game -- but I am curious, and I think I asked this before: why even have tanks in a game where avoidance is entirely the way to win? This is a pretty worrisome (there's that word again!) thing to ask of an ARPG, don't you think? Especially one as purportedly dedicated to giving players a diverse and creative set of build/play options.

But then again, I wonder what tank even means in PoE. When you have this many vectors of damage and damage mitigation, you're less a 'tank' and more a complicated network of defences on legs. Think about it: a tank. Big hulking chunk of metal with a big fucking gun. Slow to aim, fairly easy to avoid, hard to kill with anything that isn't designated a 'tank killer' (fucking love the A-10, as an aside). The whole point of a tank in any game is to survive more damage than you deal, but ideally to deal enough damage to kill anything before it can kill you. That's assuming you're solo; in a party, tanks only have to deal enough damage to keep the threat off the glass cannons and the supports.

In the current state of the game, and here I'm asking directly for answers from anyone more knowledgable than me with PoE (i.e. anyone reading this), what would you have to do to create a character that satisfies the abovementioned condition of being an all-purpose 'tank'? Preferably, include Sanctum and its Resolve mechanic.

Failing that, do you think the game should have outright tank killers if it still hasn't figured out to have outright glass cannon killers?

OR is trying to apply these simple terms to a more complicated game like PoE an act of futility?

The most Charan dissertation I've seen in years. Brilliant.
"
Foreverhappychan wrote:
"
RitualMurder wrote:
"
xjjanie wrote:
"but just now defiled cathedral map boss [Removed by Support]"

Funniest thing I've read all day. Can Support please remove more pesky map bosses? ;)


i described the way in which i was murdered with a word that began with R and ended with 3 letter word that is a type of primate

that is frowned upon


Spoiler
Yeah, I reported it. It is an extremely ugly word that has no place in public discourse outside of discussing the actual act itself, which is to my knowledge impossible to do in this game (thankfully). It is not, despite what you've said here, a synonym for murder, and the fact that you seem to think so is a little worrisome to me.

At any rate, there are dozens of ways of saying what happened to you that don't require words like the one removed. As the former First Lady said, be better. :)


__

Back on topic: I suppose it's testament to the devs' genius that they can make boss/map combinations that can baffle and wreck the shit of even a habitual 40/40 player.

That or maybe collecting all 40 achievements doesn't require encyclopædic knowledge of a game that likes to change its rules every so often.



Spoiler
Kinda sensitive though, being triggered over a word or prohibiting its usage. But tbh the world is kinda oversensitive right now and ppl are quite weak minded
.

To OP, u can check ur combat log to fix the hole in ur build ;)
Last edited by zyrotheisz#7322 on Jan 24, 2023, 7:47:20 PM
"


Spoiler
Kinda sensitive though, being triggered over a word or prohibiting its usage. But tbh the world is kinda oversensitive right now and ppl are quite weak minded


To OP, u can check ur combat log to fix the hole in ur build ;)


ah the good old combat logs so useful ^ ^

Spoiler
tbh I wasnt upset that the word was removed by a mod I was more just laughing that that user seemed so pleased with themselves that they felt the need to take credit for it and tout their moral high ground to me like some parking lot karen excited by her opportunity to show her wokeness off to someone
(سಥ益ಥ)س (سಥ益ಥ)س (سಥ益ಥ)س (سಥ益ಥ)س (سಥ益ಥ)س (سಥ益ಥ)س (سಥ益ಥ)س
"
Foreverhappychan wrote:
"
Nubatron wrote:
"
Phrazz wrote:


I'm not a native English speaker, and should probably be the last one to critique grammar mistakes, but using "could of" instead of "could've/could have" is a very common mistake I see A LOT and it makes no sense to me.


I think it's because of how it sounds when spoken. Could've when spoken sounds a lot like could of and so for some, it gets engrained as could of rather than could've. Once they've made that connection, it's hard to undo when you get around to writing it.

I'm not defending it; just describing a path for which it might happen.


As usual, it's the responses that grant the GD thread something worth discussing!

https://www.merriam-webster.com/words-at-play/whats-worse-than-coulda

Some people think it's a recent phenom, but nope -- this one goes all the way back to the 1700s. That said, for most of the time it's appeared in print, it seems to be done with the intention of portraying someone with a limited intellect or education level.

Now we all know C-Doggy is anything but that, being one of the more verifiable POE galaxy brains around here who is also a native English speaker, so it's best to assume it's a deliberate affectation to put you off-guard. I have seen her type perfectly well more than once, so yeah, it's an act. You probably didn't need to be told that, but there it is. She is not making a mistake; she is projecting a persona.

Unless two extra keystrokes are that important to her...I suppose that's also possible. Y'all Exiles are all about Eile über alles.

In which case 'coulda' is even better: three keystrokes saved!

That all said, I have caught myself typing 'then' rather than 'than' even when writing 'properly' when the fingers overtake the brain so I think it's possible to make 'verbal' typos even with typing. Probably just from seeing so many people make that mistake (and confusing then and than is absolutely a mistake). Garbage In, Garbage Out as they say. I really should spend less time on the less erudite corners of the Internet but eh, how else am I going to look in the mirror in the morning and not see nothing but an overgrown child prodigy?

__

I'm not so mean as to say 'if your tank died it clearly wasn't tanky enough' because if it served as a tank in all other ways, then it's probably on the game -- but I am curious, and I think I asked this before: why even have tanks in a game where avoidance is entirely the way to win? This is a pretty worrisome (there's that word again!) thing to ask of an ARPG, don't you think? Especially one as purportedly dedicated to giving players a diverse and creative set of build/play options.

But then again, I wonder what tank even means in PoE. When you have this many vectors of damage and damage mitigation, you're less a 'tank' and more a complicated network of defences on legs. Think about it: a tank. Big hulking chunk of metal with a big fucking gun. Slow to aim, fairly easy to avoid, hard to kill with anything that isn't designated a 'tank killer' (fucking love the A-10, as an aside). The whole point of a tank in any game is to survive more damage than you deal, but ideally to deal enough damage to kill anything before it can kill you. That's assuming you're solo; in a party, tanks only have to deal enough damage to keep the threat off the glass cannons and the supports.

In the current state of the game, and here I'm asking directly for answers from anyone more knowledgable than me with PoE (i.e. anyone reading this), what would you have to do to create a character that satisfies the abovementioned condition of being an all-purpose 'tank'? Preferably, include Sanctum and its Resolve mechanic.

Failing that, do you think the game should have outright tank killers if it still hasn't figured out to have outright glass cannon killers?

OR is trying to apply these simple terms to a more complicated game like PoE an act of futility?


1st Part:

There are so many word combinations that I consistently get wrong just from typing too fast and not paying attention, and it's not your normal usual suspects like the there/their/they're that are so commonly misused.

It's more stupid things like since vs. sense and further vs. farther if you can imagine that. It's not that I don't know the difference, it's just autopilot takes over and apparently my autopilot is closer to the undesirable Tesla autopilot than the futurist autopilots promised in so many sci-fi flicks.

Then there are a few word combinations that the logic eludes me to this day no matter how often I read up on it. The biggest offender being who vs. whom. And before you try to explain it to me like I'm a five-year-old, I've gone down that route. I need it to be a toddler level explanation at this point. Fuck those two words. I'm ready to launch them into the sun and start over with one word that handles both needs equally :)

2nd Part:

I don't know if an invincible tank is ever a good answer outside of niche level ridiculousness that is excessively expensive. I think dying is a good thing for the game and constantly pushes us to get better. I don't take a lot of issue with the difficulty of most things in the game, with a few extreme exceptions. What I take exception to is that the answer to all defensive problems is more DPS. Died? More DPS to avoid the mechanic. Died again? More DPS. Keep going until dying is no longer realistic because everything is dead.

As for Sanctum, I like the idea, but not the implementation. They need to make resolve hits telegraphed like the Vaal Oversoul slam that impact more resolve, and other attacks just hit harder but not impact resolve. Dying in the Sanctum needs to be realistically something to think about. It's just another example of melee getting shafted, and defensive builds being pointless. DPS wins again.
Thanks for all the fish!
Last edited by Nubatron#4333 on Jan 25, 2023, 9:17:03 AM
^

I dont think dying is good for the game the way it is now, especially if death is a development solution for a problem.

What ends up happneing is the truly dangerous encounters end up being either impossible to see, or recognize quickly, or they simply override all the defenses a player could realistically have.

What GGG should do is reexamine the outliers that get EHP to absurd levels, and the mob/boss encounters that are so dangerous, the solution is to out DPS the encounter. You dont have to avoid death if they die first is a terrible place to start from development wise.

So yes, dying, or the risk of dying, should be in the game, but how it is now doesntly feel great for anyone. It's either crit one-hit, mob DD, projectile mod shotgun spam, or some outrageous degen. That's it. That's all that can kill a well made character (aside from standing in shaper slam or failing Maven memory game, etc).
"Better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak out and remove all doubt."
- Abraham Lincoln
Last edited by DarthSki44#6905 on Jan 25, 2023, 10:28:44 AM

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