Trading

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Phrazz wrote:

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SimpleSiren911 wrote:

Diablo 4 Should break this dumb rule of GGG. They will have a way to trde that isnt from the 80'S

Yeah, you will be LESS able to trade items in Diablo 4. At least good, endgame items.

Yes because in a novel concept you will be able to actually find items dropping from the mobs you kill that matter for your character. Trade is secondary, mostly friend related, and not heavily balanced against the player in terms of gear progression.

Not engaging in altar farming or Expedition to generate currency to buy the items you want from someone else.

GGG actually does it poorly on both ends. Trading sucks and so does item farming for upgrades. Not to mention how unbalanced crafting is.

It's a valid point. If you are AFK in game you should be removed from the trade servers.

A few times I found a deal with an AFK tagged persons, but they should have someway of validating they are not "playing" but good with trading. 10 minute type of timer?

Trading shouldn't be easy though...good things require time and effort.

Happy Holidays Exiles!

Sometimes I watch TV or play another game and I am still online in PoE for trading.
I don't use a tool/hack to be NOT AFK.

But I'm sure others do. I use a few brwoser tabs for trading "fix" items and these shows some players ALWAYS not afk and at the same time PoE says they are afk.
That happended for these special players always so it can't be random.

Fast removing afk players from trade would support that "cheating" - and bots ofcourse.

I agree to PoE that an AH would be a bad thing. You can find an old thread where I explained why.
But I wish (as many players too) an AH for currencies, maps and other things you can't wear.

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DarthSki44 wrote:

Yes because in a novel concept you will be able to actually find items dropping from the mobs you kill that matter for your character. Trade is secondary, mostly friend related, and not heavily balanced against the player in terms of gear progression.

Not engaging in altar farming or Expedition to generate currency to buy the items you want from someone else.

Everything you wrote here, are reasons why I'll probably won't like Diablo 4 - and will still prefer PoE :P

I like finding/trying different farming strats based on my character and playstyle. I like farming. I like grinding. I like to know that the game isn't holding my hand, tailoring "random" drops based on what I'm playing. I like knowing that I won't drop 'everything' I need going from A to B. I like that the game requires more from me to "succeed", whatever that is.

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Phrazz wrote:

I like finding/trying different farming strats based on my character and playstyle. I like farming. I like grinding. I like to know that the game isn't holding my hand, tailoring "random" drops based on what I'm playing. I like knowing that I won't drop 'everything' I need going from A to B.

Usually I'm the one engaging in hyperbole to make a point.

That said finding the loot from killing mobs or bosses, in my opinion, is far superior than buying it on the trade market, or meta essence crafting spam on fractured items like a casino slot machine.

You could spend days in PoE looking for a gear slot upgrade and never find anything compared to what you could craft or buy in 5 minutes. Maybe you do actually enjoy that, but we have specifically discussed this looting issue numerous times post-Harvest. The looting in PoE from a gear progression standpoint is absolutely fucked. You know it, I know it, and GGG knows it.

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DarthSki44 wrote:

You could spend days in PoE looking for a gear slot upgrade and never find anything compared to what you could craft or buy in 5 minutes. Maybe you do actually enjoy that, but we have specifically discussed this looting issue numerous times post-Harvest. The looting in PoE from a gear progression standpoint is absolutely fucked. You know it, I know it, and GGG knows it.

I was comparing. I absolutely think that PoE needs better drops - and a smother item progression. But if I was forced to choose PoE's current system and a system you KNOW is tailored for YOU and YOUR character, I'd choose PoE.

PoE tries to jungle 3 elements to please all 3 camps: crafters, traders and the people wanting to find their own items/upgrades (looters). The traders want an AH, the crafters want a deterministic way of crafting what they want, while the looters want to find their upgrades themselves. It's impossible to please everyone without making item acquisition too trivial.

But yes, in short: The better crafting is, the worse it is for the looters - because the game becomes/is all about "crafting bases" and not "upgrades" - and on top of that, some people are screaming for even better crafting - so it's pretty clear that "complete" item drops is a non-issue for a lot of people.

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Phrazz wrote:

- and on top of that, some people are screaming for even better crafting

While I cannot speak for everyone, I think you are misinterpreting what they are asking for. Because the looting is so bad, and the crafting is such a casino, people are craving even the most remote sense of determinism. To elaborate, right now there is no way to help control your looting experience. You cannot target farm gear slots (on average). Lets say for example, you need gloves with life, chaos res, and some DeX, maybe life regeneration.

You will, percentage wise, basically never find these via looting. What many people do is look on trade for a fractured life roll, then DeX essence spam until they hit chaos or life regeneration. Or some version of this fractured/essence spam. It's the only determinism available. Not to mention finding the crafting base is also a crap shoot, with the best option being leveling to 90 and using an Expedition vendor to find them. Ugh.

If this is the type of gear progression you prefer, then fine, but let's not pretend that this doesnt, for most people, suck. They would rather find a pair of gloves that are close to what they wanted, and then "fix" them so it works for their build. This imo, feels way better than the current alternatives. I'm under no illusion however that GGG hates this more deterministic style, and loves the layered rng gamba we have now. I find it very unsatisfying. That the dopamine hits are from currency drops, and crafting lottery wins, versus finding cool items and upgrades, which are unicorns.

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DarthSki44 wrote:

I think you are misinterpreting what they are asking for

Nah, I believe too much in the human race to believe that they are advocating for full-powered Harvest rather than better item drops, if better item drops are what they want.

But I more or less agree with you (I think): Scrap crafting, make it "altering" instead (minor altering) and improve items drops across the board - with systems that let you influence those drops. But I think you're underestimating the amount of people that love the current crafting system - and would raise havoc if its power went away, no matter how "casino" it is - and no matter how much they'd improve drops. And... Good item drops will never happen as long as crafting is as powerful as it is. And what are they doing every other league? New crafting mechanics, because people love it and are asking for it.

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Phrazz wrote:

But I think you're underestimating the amount of people that love the current crafting system - and would raise havoc if its power went away, no matter how "casino" it is - and no matter how much they'd improve drops

This is where we disagree.

I think the vast majority of players dont really even understand crafting, with meta craft bench blocking & annuls, betrayal Aisling slams or unveils, beast crafting with affixes, or splitting, fossil resonator usage, not to mention all the influences and affixes related to the specific item. It's actually absurd.

The crafting showcases you see on Reddit or streams are outliers. Most people are essence or chaos spamming fractured items (maybe alt spam with regal), or Rog is Pog luck.

So no, I dont agree agree that "most people love it", and imo its why the Harvest thread was one of the most debated and posted on topics ever.

The gap that exists between how most people enjoy the game, compared to more elite players, isnt a gap, it's a chasm. And while normally that's ok for a game to have varied talent levels, GGG balances around a few thousand players at most(not a meme), and its really toxic to the game overall.

Anyways it's not changing really, regardless of what I think about it. GGG has picked a lane, a player hostile lane. The difference is players are going to have a more serious choice here in a few months, and I anticipate many will exercise that choice based on how GGG has determined players should enjoy PoE.

I've always said this is the most dangerous thing a dev can do to their playerbase. Tell them what they actually like and enjoy doing, or at the very least, fail to understand and seem out of touch. Like your melee Sanctum experience.

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DarthSki44 wrote:

So no, I dont agree agree that "most people love it"

Me neither.