Why is P.O.E and its community afraid of pick-up pets?

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Foreverhappychan wrote:

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Kalithas wrote:

It was not in d2, so it's not a good feature.

No. Come on. That *has* to be sarcasm. Even D2R has features that weren't in D2.

replacing npc text files with gender-neutral language is a great feature. i loved it. we need more of those devs

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girng wrote:

lost ark isn't even remotely comparable to the aRPG experience. that's just a rand mmo with a top down camera lmao

This is a spectacularly and unusually clear example of a strawman argument. Just because two games aren't comparable doesn't mean QoL from one wouldn't work in the other.

And please note I agree with your assessment of Lost Ark. Its shiny banner keeps yelling at me on Steam, so I finally had a glance at the reviews (just to see if everything else I'd read and seen about it were somehow wrong) and was like 'nope'. For some reason, between stuff like Lost Ark, Genshin, Diablo Immortal and Undecember, the PC has somehow just recently discovered this particular style of game which has flourished on mobile for years. Sure, they look a lot better and perform far better but in the end they're just bigger, prettier versions of mobile games and bring with them the baggage inherent to such.

But that doesn't mean that a QoL feature in any of them is immediately invalid for PoE. It was that sort of thinking that made PoE resist some of D3's innovations, such as smart loot, which then, combined with PoE's ferocious and unrelenting addiction to ADDING MORE STUFF TO PICK UP, led to players and GGG resorting to an arguably *worse* solution: overly complicated loot filters. Your average gamer doesn't have time for that when they want to play an ARPG. They just want to kill shit for an hour or two while they've time between more important things.

But then again, your average gamer runs screaming from PoE and for good reason.

And that's why you're still manually picking everything up in an era where any game released forcing players to do so would be scathed for missing QoL: because the majority of people who'd want it have already pissed off to games that have shit like smart loot and auto-pickup for post-action gear sorting, i.e. probably any modern game with loot but PoE.

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girng wrote:

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Foreverhappychan wrote:

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Kalithas wrote:

It was not in d2, so it's not a good feature.

No. Come on. That *has* to be sarcasm. Even D2R has features that weren't in D2.

replacing npc text files with gender-neutral language is a great feature. i loved it. we need more of those devs

My god you did it *again*. Amazing.

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Foreverhappychan wrote:

This is a spectacularly and unusually clear example of a strawman argument. Just because two games aren't comparable doesn't mean QoL from one wouldn't work in the other.

it's not a strawman. and yes it does, because they are not the same genre lol

and did you really just say smart loot and d3 in the same sentence, ain't gonna argue with that. the only thing d3 did was right was the smoothness of gameplay

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Foreverhappychan wrote:

And that's why you're still manually picking everything up in an era where any game released forcing players to do so would be scathed for missing QoL: because the majority of people who'd want it have already pissed off to games that have shit like smart loot and auto-pickup for post-action gear sorting, i.e. probably any modern game with loot but PoE.

Any game that isn't a true aRPG. Auto loot MTX is a P2W feature and doesn't enhance the aRPG gameplay at all, in fact, it diminishes it greatly. Just as much as loot filters degrade itemization and the looting experience.

edit: LOL post action gear sorting.. yes, because let's just remove organizational aspects of the inventory. All that does is make the player spend less time thinking about items and sorting gear. That's not a positive, but a negative

Ah, I see. TRVE ARPG. Righto. You want to draw those sorts of lines. You do you then.

Also, yeah, it was a strawman. It was also what wiki conveniently calls:

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An irrelevant conclusion, also known as ignoratio elenchi (Latin for 'ignoring refutation') or missing the point, is the informal fallacy of presenting an argument that may or may not be logically valid and sound, but (whose conclusion) fails to address the issue in question. It falls into the broad class of relevance fallacies.

In this case, LA and PoE being different genres is 'logically valid and sound' but the conclusion (therefore QoL in one does not fit QoL requirements for the other) fails to address the the issue in question (does PoE need or would it benefit from an auto-pickup system eg a pet.

Whether or nor this is paid is also irrelevant -- although if you'd read my very first post here I broadly mocked the notion and pointed out that I wouldn't be entirely surprised if GGG found a way to insinuate it into the international version of PoE. They have, by my estimation, scuffed more significant examples of their own lines in the sand (see: streamer priority queue for new league login).

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girng wrote:

edit: LOL post action gear sorting.. yes, because let's just remove organizational aspects of the inventory. All that does is make the player spend less time thinking about items and sorting gear. That's not a positive, but a negative

Again, you may not play many loot-spewing games other than PoE but pretty much every looter/arpg I play (especially multiplayer) does that now. In terms of gameplay for people who don't want to pause mid-action to play inventory tetris or agonise over relatively minor gear upgrades (i.e. people who only have limited time to play multiplayer with friends because of life), it is a *huge* positive. Inventory management mid-action is an antiquated leftover.

And no, what it does is place the segment of the game that 'thinks about items and sorting gear' in its proper place: back at the hub/town/safe area/base. That's after you've ended the multiplayer session and can take the time to go through it all, dismantling what you don't need, upgrading certain drops, setting others aside for later or other builds, etc.

Finnicky inventory management during a multiplayer session when you'd rather be *actually playing the game with your friends* is a waste of time. Period.

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Foreverhappychan wrote:

Ah, I see. TRVE ARPG. Righto. You want to draw those sorts of lines. You do you then.

Also, yeah, it was a strawman. It was also what wiki conveniently calls:

"

An irrelevant conclusion, also known as ignoratio elenchi (Latin for 'ignoring refutation') or missing the point, is the informal fallacy of presenting an argument that may or may not be logically valid and sound, but (whose conclusion) fails to address the issue in question. It falls into the broad class of relevance fallacies.

In this case, LA and PoE being different genres is 'logically valid and sound' but the conclusion (therefore QoL in one does not fit QoL requirements for the other) fails to address the the issue in question (does PoE need or would it benefit from an auto-pickup system eg a pet.

Whether or nor this is paid is also irrelevant -- although if you'd read my very first post here I broadly mocked the notion and pointed out that I wouldn't be entirely surprised if GGG found a way to insinuate it into the international version of PoE. They have, by my estimation, scuffed more significant examples of their own lines in the sand (see: streamer priority queue for new league login).

well, i'm talking about the "qol feature" from LA

my points:

1) auto-looting is inherently P2W and bad for PoE
2) hinders the looting experience
3) can be applied to any genre

and i agree with you about it being paid or not, it's still bad (i didn't mention this) - just assumed it was paid because of the context of MTXs

Okay now we're getting somewhere. You still think it's automatically bad if it's free?

Also, I need to add my own qualification: I'm definitely talking about the multiplayer experience here when I say loot QoL is important, and I don't think anyone who plays it regularly has really considered PoE a great multiplayer game for years now. It just doesn't respect those with limited playtime anywhere near enough.

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Foreverhappychan wrote:

Again, you may not play many loot-spewing games other than PoE but pretty much every looter/arpg I play (especially multiplayer) does that now. In terms of gameplay for people who don't want to pause mid-action to play inventory tetris or agonise over relatively minor gear upgrades (i.e. people who only have limited time to play multiplayer with friends because of life), it is a *huge* positive. Inventory management mid-action is an antiquated leftover.

And no, what it does is place the segment of the game that 'thinks about items and sorting gear' in its proper place: back at the hub/town/safe area/base. That's after you've ended the multiplayer session and can take the time to go through it all, dismantling what you don't need, upgrading certain drops, setting others aside for later or other builds, etc.

Finnicky inventory management during a multiplayer session when you'd rather be *actually playing the game with your friends* is a waste of time. Period.

just because a lot of other games do it means jack all. that's a strawman LOL

it also doesn't even prove anything, all it does it show lazy game design, or devs who succumbed to massive player tears

Inventory management mid-action is not even an issue with PoE or D2. i think you mean stash management after grinding.

stash management isn't an antiquated leftover, it's an inherent part of item management. your argument is also really dangerous, because you're advocating for automation. why even play at all? why even click on an item label on the floor and have my character navigate to it and loot it? why do i even have to put stuff in my stash? you see where this is going?

why do i have to do all this work when i could be "playing the game with my friends!" as you put it.

no thank you.

d2 has lasted over 2 decades without any of this buffoonery, i'm sure you and me will be fine. poe will too, hopefully.

Again: you do all the fiddly stash management *between* the action, back at the hub. I play another game in which I spend hours doing that, by myself, when I'm not partied with my pals for a few hours gathering the loot to do that. The only automation is the acquisition of the loot, which is perfectly fine automated because it is an action in-game that almost never changes. There is no interesting engagement with the game when it comes to picking up loot. Sans filter, it breaks the flow of the action; with a filter, it's a pointless step.

Judgmental insults that reduce legitimate feedback to 'massive player tears' really does your argument no good.

I'm done here. You're fortunate that GGG share your position. For now. Because not many other game developers out there do. ^_^

PS D2R has auto gold pick up, and you know it. D2 otherwise has coasted for two decades because of nostalgia and mods. And those mods? A lot of them add QoL. Huh. Go figure.

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Foreverhappychan wrote:

Again: you do all the fiddly stash management *between* the action, back at the hub. I play another game in which I spend hours doing that, by myself, when I'm not partied with my pals for a few hours gathering the loot to do that. The only automation is the acquisition of the loot, which is perfectly fine automated because it is an action in-game that almost never changes. There is no interesting engagement with the game when it comes to picking up loot. Sans filter, it breaks the flow of the action; with a filter, it's a pointless step.

Judgmental insults that reduce legitimate feedback to 'massive player tears' really does your argument no good.

I'm done here. You're fortunate that GGG share your position. For now. Because not many other game developers out there do. ^_^

PS D2R has auto gold pick up, and you know it. D2 otherwise has coasted for two decades because of nostalgia and mods. And those mods? A lot of them add QoL. Huh. Go figure.

you're the one who came at me first by saying i was using a strawman. Then I called an argument of yours a strawman, and now you claim judgmental insults? LOL


i don't agree with the auto gold pick up either, but i don't play D2R but after seeing that and the devs throw in patch notes for fixing gender-neutral language, it's not really enticing to me.

and picking up loot is engaging, you're just used to it because you have played aRPGs for a long time (this is not a bad thing).. you need to go back the first time you found an item and made your character walk to it and picked it up. put yourself in that moment. that's what needs to be carried along in the "arpg experience", and i hope it does