Why is P.O.E and its community afraid of pick-up pets?

same reason they hate the idea of another way of leveling instead of doing the story. because if its in another ARPG .... its bad and we should go play (insert said ARPG) instead of POE.

its goes against "the vision"

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Reinhart wrote:

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Foreverhappychan wrote:

Again: you do all the fiddly stash management *between* the action, back at the hub. I play another game in which I spend hours doing that, by myself, when I'm not partied with my pals for a few hours gathering the loot to do that. The only automation is the acquisition of the loot, which is perfectly fine automated because it is an action in-game that almost never changes. There is no interesting engagement with the game when it comes to picking up loot. Sans filter, it breaks the flow of the action; with a filter, it's a pointless step.

Judgmental insults that reduce legitimate feedback to 'massive player tears' really does your argument no good.

I'm done here. You're fortunate that GGG share your position. For now. Because not many other game developers out there do. ^_^

PS D2R has auto gold pick up, and you know it. D2 otherwise has coasted for two decades because of nostalgia and mods. And those mods? A lot of them add QoL. Huh. Go figure.

Practically all classical rpgs require the player to select and pick up the loot they want. They also feature an item management system which is part of the rpg dna. This auto pick up-system is a very new dangerous trend, to say it like it really is, to appeal to the lazy casual gamer.

Correction: required.

And I'm not talking about 'classical' anything -- that much I make abundantly clear, Reinhart. I'm talking modern action gaming, specifically multiplayer. Besides, even in classical RPGs, you usually got your loot after a battle (search body, dump into your inventory -- see Final fantasy, Wizardry, the gold box TSR games, Might and Magic, etc) or you opened a chest, which then dumped the loot into your inventory (see previous examples, add in Ys, Zelda, pretty much any dungeon crawler). And in both cases, it was *after* the action, so you could take your time.

This is an important difference to what PoE still does.

The notion of 'selecting and picking up all loot' with no discernible distinction from the action is almost exclusively the domain of early ARPGs and thank god they've outgrown it. Or rather, thank god the tech has made it unnecessary. NO ONE enjoyed swinging their mouse around trying to find rings in Diablo 1. So they added a key for highlighting loot in later ARPGs. Oh no, that's blasphemy! Said no one, ever.

There was also a time when loot filters themselves were an affront to the ARPG purist. Why *ignore* loot that you might want or need? But as loot itself became more complicated, filters were absolutely necessary.

Autoloot is no different. ARPGs are far more 'Action' now than ever, and looting mid-action is really not fun. I get PoE's whole 'limited inventory forces meaningful loot decisions' schtick but the genre left that behind long ago. Exiles typically aren't making 'meaningful loot decisions' while Mapping; they're letting pre-cooked filters do that for them.

If your character can carry multiple suits of armour, two handed swords and a few bows at once, you're already way the fuck out of the realm of realism and might as well just have a much, much bigger bag of holding at your disposal. And if that fucks with your balance (as it would in PoE), here's a fucking idea: fewer loot drops people filter out in the first place maybe? See: smart loot.

The most recent ARPGs autoloot. Last Epoch? autoloots crafting materials I believe since they are represented by a number in your collection, and maybe gold? Warhammer 40k Inquisitor? Autoloots everything (which is a step up from what it originally did, which was autoloot during mission and only let you change equipment between missions a la simulated combat deployment). I'd say the last ARPG released that doesn't autoloot somehow was Grim Dawn and oh good grief is item management the worst part of THAT game.

Look: PoE is your game, and it does things the way you like. That's wonderful for you and everyone else who still enjoys (or at least tells themselves they enjoy) finnicky inventory management and looting. But please disavow yourself of the belief that autoloot is somehow 'dangerous' or appeals only to 'casual' gamers. That's frankly rude and elitist. Just because a game handles a fairly clunky, tiresome part of its mechanics for the player doesn't mean it's in any way, shape or form 'casual' in its other aspects.

Take this, for example:

"To pick up loot and money (gold) from downed enemies, simply press and hold the "interact" button. When you hold the "interact" button, gold and items will automatically come to you, even from afar."

Game? Sekiro: Shadows Die Twice. Go on, call people who are really good at that 'casual' and 'lazy'. I fucking dare ya.

You admitted yourself in another thread you're out of touch with modern gaming. Maybe...keep that in mind the next time you want to throw judgments about modern gaming around.

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fabiopa1n wrote:

That would make the game completly unplayable.
Absurd P2W interaction! Shame on you OP!




So when is the next premium tab coming? Im so thankfull GGG gave us the option to organize the digital clusterfuck of orbs/shards/splinters by buying storage for it.

I see you, I see what you did there

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Foreverhappychan wrote:

...
Look: PoE is your game, and it does things the way you like. That's wonderful for you and everyone else who still enjoys (or at least tells themselves they enjoy) finnicky inventory management and looting. But please disavow yourself of the belief that autoloot is somehow 'dangerous' or appeals only to 'casual' gamers. That's frankly rude and elitist. Just because a game handles a fairly clunky, tiresome part of its mechanics for the player doesn't mean it's in any way, shape or form 'casual' in its other aspects.
...

Agreed, and was surprised about how many people here said they'd quit if loot pets appear. Potential bot autors already can use legal lootfilters to make their desired item tooltips top contrast and trivial to "read" for the bots, up to hardcoding color hex codes directly into the bot. There is no "danger" from loot pets other than people who worked day and night grinding this now being angry about losing an imagined advantage.

With how many mobs are dying on screen, loot picking greatly disrupts flow of combat. I spend more time checking and picking loot than actually figthing, and offloading that loot in hideout is already a chore, as is setting up new maps, so would love to have at least currency picking pet here.

And about "this is p2w and assosiates with cash grab garbo games", there are other aspects in poe that are far more frustrating like exp penalty from split second deaths, so this factor looks small among other problems the game currently has.

Forgot to add, PoE always had P2W in the form of stash tabs, yet no one threatens to leave because of it. Playing this game without paying at least for one currency tab, map tab, and fragment tab, is so inconvenient that loot pickup seems small by comparison.

So calling loot pets P2W is some real double standards here.

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Foreverhappychan wrote:

Look: PoE is your game, and it does things the way you like. That's wonderful for you and everyone else who still enjoys (or at least tells themselves they enjoy) finnicky inventory management and looting. But please disavow yourself of the belief that autoloot is somehow 'dangerous' or appeals only to 'casual' gamers. That's frankly rude and elitist. Just because a game handles a fairly clunky, tiresome part of its mechanics for the player doesn't mean it's in any way, shape or form 'casual' in its other aspects.

Well in a way it is. If you strip away the item management part while automating the process, you do make the game easier and hence more casual. It is a bit similar to quest markers. Old rpg's didn't have any and it was the player themself who had to figure out, with the given info, where he needed to go. Quest markers simplify the game, make the game easier and hence more casual. Legend of Grimrock (2012) was advertised as a hardcore oldschool rpg, simply because it had no markers and people had to figure out secret locations all on their own. Additionally there was the option to play the game without a world map (you were forced to draw the map yourself with pen and paper as you discovered more rooms) and casting required to be done with manual rune pressing.

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Foreverhappychan wrote:

Take this, for example:

"To pick up loot and money (gold) from downed enemies, simply press and hold the "interact" button. When you hold the "interact" button, gold and items will automatically come to you, even from afar."

Game? Sekiro: Shadows Die Twice. Go on, call people who are really good at that 'casual' and 'lazy'. I fucking dare ya.

You admitted yourself in another thread you're out of touch with modern gaming. Maybe...keep that in mind the next time you want to throw judgments about modern gaming around.

It is true my time is taken by quite a lot of engineering projects, leaving me with not too much freedom to delve into other games. I did try here and there but modern gaming doesnt quite click with me.

I've played without a fragment or map tab for years it isn't as bad as you think, calling it p2w just distils p2w down to a pointless term its so weak.

Its definitely an advantage in some ways but GGG do have the right to make something attractive to ensure some sales afterall.

I can see why that draws a comparison to a loot pet, its the same thing right? But loot pets are tarnished by association, if you judge if a game is p2w because it has a loot pet you are right in most circumstances its like flying a flag with it specified.

That kind of reputation is dangerous, it puts customers off without ever appearing on metrics. Honestly I feel this way about Korean games, its become so common that they look amazing but have toxic shops that I now write them off until they have jumped through many hoops to reach my eyes/ears.

Yeah, this is definitely not the space for THAT old argument.

I have reached the end of my participation here with the following progression:

1) OP asks why PoE is afraid of pick-up pets, which is a fair query given where most games are now re: autoloot QoL

2) early responses equally fairly point out that 'pick up pets' in PoE would be pay-to-win by GGG's standards (Tencent's are another thing altogether)

2a) a few even say they'd quit if it were implemented, and most if not all of them clearly have PoE pets

3) A few propose making it free (i.e. giving everyone a basic fetch pet they can choose or choose not to use, then enabling all pets to do so) which strikes me as sound and not against any of GGG's basic rules re: p2w thresholds.

4) Even then responders feel it would be wrong

5) I jump in like an idiot and say go for it and describe how I imagine GGG would do it to 'fool' players into thinking it wasn't p2w or unfair or breaking their rules

6) The immediate response after mine flat-out says they'd pay for it (lol)

7) 'it wasn't in D2 so it's a bad idea' pops up, because that always ends well for modern ARPG design

8) 'autolooting is not in classic rpgs' uh...that's debatable, also, classic rpgs didn't have lootsplosions so violent players absolutely need filters just to negotiate them

9) 'autoloot is just for lazy, casual gamers' is not a tenable stance, it's barely a poorly-informed opinion that says more about the speaker than 'lazy, casual gamers'

and finally, the coup de blah:

10) 'wait but how can you complain about pick up pets being p2w when stash tabs are already p2w' -- stash tabs being p2w is BASICALLY the Godwin's Law of the PoE forum

The thread will keep going, but I don't see it going anywhere new after that.

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Foreverhappychan wrote:

Yeah, this is definitely not the space for THAT old argument.

I have reached the end of my participation here with the following progression:

I am by no means an old-timer or skilled player here, so have no idea about how old this Godwin's Law is. It just came to my mind without any forum reference, from personal in-game experience. People think that collecting loot is an integral part of the game and thus should be factored into concepts of difficulty, commitment, earnings, etc. I consider it an annoying necessity, and get no pleasure in clicking 5000+ of alch/alt/chaos each. To each his own.

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Foreverhappychan wrote:

Autoloot is no different. ARPGs are far more 'Action' now than ever, and looting mid-action is really not fun. I get PoE's whole 'limited inventory forces meaningful loot decisions' schtick but the genre left that behind long ago. Exiles typically aren't making 'meaningful loot decisions' while Mapping; they're letting pre-cooked filters do that for them.

I personally believe POE Mobile might have some autoloot feature and that game version may be straight up your alley.

Let say GGG is open to such an initiative: "How would you design the item management system around autolooting?"

Autolooting example.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aDwuXvNbULw
P.S.: I have no idea how Diablo Immortal does it, I only know it is has an autoloot system in place.