Tbh was kind of sad about the minion nerfs at first but now

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DarthSki44 wrote:

Listen if you dont like Ascendency Specialization as a design philosophy, that's fine, it's just a totally separate conversation imo.

It's a totally seperate conversation because you're just jumping random conclusions based on things I didn't even mention.

Ok then what did you mean by this, when we are specifically talking about the Necromancer Ascendancy?

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Scarletsword wrote:

You want the obvious choice to be the best one, right?

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DarthSki44 wrote:

Ok then what did you mean by this, when we are specifically talking about the Necromancer Ascendancy?

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Scarletsword wrote:

You want the obvious choice to be the best one, right?

It was a bit of an offtopic thing to mention Necromancers not being the obvious choice in a thread about minions and their viability/potential in the new system. But it's adjacent so not completely out of bounds. Discussing that specific change though probably requires a new thread to avoid derailing this one.

Of course Necromancer not being as good an option is a problem. I suspect they will revisit the Unnatural Strength change, because it went from great to kind of strange swim lane. Scaling physical and a node that scales from that isn't exactly a good tradeoff for how minions tend to scale. Unholy Might just isn't the same as +2 gems, unless there was a change to Unholy Might. If Unholy Might scaled off of all damage types, then perhaps....maybe?

But this particular thread was about generically minions being good, and Guardian minion build (which is supposed to be a thing if you look at the ascendancy bonuses) and is going to be good.

It's a reference to this and also why I quoted it.

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DarthSki44 wrote:

Sure you can be an Inquisitor and toss fire traps, but you shouldn't be out-classing Saboteur.

You mentioned Fire Trap. Fire Trap isn't limited to traps.
It includes:
- Fire
- Ailments
- Spelldamage
- AoE
- Damage over time

Why shouldn't Inquisitor outclass Saboteur in this case? It clearly has more interaction with it.

Same thing with summoners/minions and Necromancer. A Necromancer isn't the only ascendency that focuses on minions/allies and supporting them.

So how is it a fuck-up by GGG or flawed logic?

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Scarletsword wrote:

It's a reference to this and also why I quoted it.

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DarthSki44 wrote:

Sure you can be an Inquisitor and toss fire traps, but you shouldn't be out-classing Saboteur.

You mentioned Fire Trap. Fire Trap isn't limited to traps.
It includes:
- Fire
- Ailments
- Spelldamage
- AoE
- Damage over time

Why shouldn't Inquisitor outclass Saboteur in this case? It clearly has more interaction with it.

Same thing with summoners/minions and Necromancer. A Necromancer isn't the only ascendency that focuses on minions/allies and supporting them.

So how is it a fuck-up by GGG or flawed logic?

Well it's clearly a difference of opinion I think. The Necromancer choice is supposed to focus benefits of summoning minions & supporting them.

It's no different than choosing Saboteur as the best options for traps, or Elementalist the best option for golems, Hiero for totems, etc...

Of course there is flexibility, but GGG has literally designed these choices with specific builds in mind.

The Necro changes are counterintuitive, imo, to what they currently intend.

Edit: Again perhaps you don't feel that way generally speaking in terms of build making, but that's why I consider that a separate discussion. Maybe I'm wrong but it seems to me you dont think the ascendency choices should be the best or obvious choice. Which would absolutely be a change in philosophy for GGG.

Personally I think the +2 all minion affix on gear makes the Scion super strong for minions.

1) Great access to clusters
2) Sick combos like perma onslaught and perma tailwind for minions (guardian/deadeye)
3) Better flexibility and access to any defensive mechanism you want to stack (i.e. possible to have grace/deter/banner/ss all at once again)


Not sure how most any other ascendancy even comes close.

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Prizy wrote:

Personally I think the +2 all minion affix on gear makes the Scion super strong for minions.

1) Great access to clusters
2) Sick combos like perma onslaught and perma tailwind for minions (guardian/deadeye)
3) Better flexibility and access to any defensive mechanism you want to stack (i.e. possible to have grace/deter/banner/ss all at once again)


Not sure how most any other ascendancy even comes close.

I totally agree, and that was kinda my point earlier in the thread. It's very possible that Scion and Guardian will be far better for minions than Necromancer, and imo, that makes little sense.

I guess let's just see how it plays out, but if most folks avoid Necro for minions that's not a great look from a design pov.

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DarthSki44 wrote:

That is absolutely not what I'm saying and I suspect you know it. Sure you can be an Inquisitor and toss fire traps, but you shouldn't be out-classing Saboteur.

That's what this is going to end up being, which is ridiculous. They should have changed away from the Necromancer ascendancy totally if this was the design intention.

Just one question. Why?

All 3 of them are minion focused so why exactly should necro specifically be the best. Same with any other ascendancy for any other build. That statement goes against the main concept of the game, that you can do anything with any class and you might be just as strong. You look for synergies and if it works then it works. There is no rule saying this or that should be better for this or that.

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kuciol wrote:

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DarthSki44 wrote:

That is absolutely not what I'm saying and I suspect you know it. Sure you can be an Inquisitor and toss fire traps, but you shouldn't be out-classing Saboteur.

That's what this is going to end up being, which is ridiculous. They should have changed away from the Necromancer ascendancy totally if this was the design intention.

Just one question. Why?

All 3 of them are minion focused so why exactly should necro specifically be the best. Same with any other ascendancy for any other build. That statement goes against the main concept of the game, that you can do anything with any class and you might be just as strong. You look for synergies and if it works then it works. There is no rule saying this or that should be better for this or that.

While I agree that any class can do anything….but shouldn’t there be a clas that something is their primary Focus? I mean, if not, the why have classes and ascendancies - everyone can start as a blank slate and go where they want.

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JoeUtopia wrote:

While I agree that any class can do anything….but shouldn’t there be a clas that something is their primary Focus? I mean, if not, the why have classes and ascendancies - everyone can start as a blank slate and go where they want.

There are few that focus on same thing or different aspects of this thing. In this case you have 3 classes that focus on minions so im asking why exactly Necro should be the best. It like you would have champion, berserker and rider and said that champion must be the best for blade flurry.

Skills have many tags so many ascendencies can boost some aspect of it. We had a trap example above. Why elementalist or inquisitor shouldnt be just as good for them? Maybe not fire trap exactly but lets say ice trap? I see no reason to besides "i said so". Do you?