Melee buffs!
" You do realize that, no matter how much more damage they give melee, you'll never get the playstyle of that Icespear build on something like Heavy Strike right? It's not a matter of damage at this point. Even if GGG were to change Heavy Strike in a way that actually enabled this kind of playstyle, by the time they do, it won't be melee anymore. It would be something akin to Lightning or Flicker Strike who can already do similar things. I honestly don't get what exactly it is you want. You clearly don't consider something melee because it has a melee tag (COC Cyclone would be melee if you were to see it from that perspective), so you are talking about some definition of "real melee" here but you use something like this as a benchmark that "real" melee skills should be able to reach. Imo that's a contradiction. By definition you can't have "real" melee that blows up screens. It's one or the other. I could understand people who just feel like melee could need a bit more damage, or those who want some of the kinks, like base attack speed and targeting fixed. But none of that would do anything to get it any closer to those top meta builds it is always compared to so nothing would change at the end? I mean if that is the kind of playstyle you are looking for, would you actually bother playing Heavy Strike if it got 50% more base damage and 10% more base attack speed? Last edited by Baharoth15#0429 on Aug 4, 2022, 9:25:12 AM
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" Possible solution. Right now we have ascendancies, pantheons, atlas passives to help shape our characters. Add a character "Focus" tree. PLayers can allocate for melee skills, or casting skills, for trapping skills, archery etc. The melee notables would grant a lot more defense while using melee combat skills. Movement could be incorporated into many melee skills, so that a separate gem isn't needed. Non melee skills that are really just movement, could be stripped of melee, so that they don't grant things like fortify. The focus nodes could allow purely physical build boosts (convert all flat elemental damage to flat physical) while limiting elemental (deal no elemental damage). This focus tree would have useful stuff for all kinds of builds and would allow GGG to balance out other buffs and nerfs. Piety's story http://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/2081910
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" I don't think making traditional Heavy Strike-like skills the same as screen clearing skills would be good for the game. They need to have some sort of unique identify. Something that makes them excel in ways other skills don't. Projectile and area based skills already have a special place in clearing. Perhaps strike skills should be better at single target. Dramatically better; defensively to make standing close worth it, and offensively to make it worth using in that situation and to account for up/downtime of damage due to the need to move to the target. I thought the game was better when clear skills were separate from single target skills, and builds needed to figure out both. I think Molten Strike might have poisoned that well back in 1.1.3 because it was one of the early skills that was pretty good at both (given how slow the game was back then). Thanks for all the fish! Last edited by Nubatron#4333 on Aug 4, 2022, 9:25:06 AM
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" Fair enough. But for that idea to work out they would have to reduce the damage of all AOE/projectile skills by around 90% first because as long as those AOE skills can delete uber bosses in <1 second, no matter how much they buff melee for single target, it will be a mood point. Don't get me wrong, i wouldn't mind if melee got some love for a change. But i honestly can't help but feel like it would end up being pointless even if it happened. Maybe a few people would bother making a melee build for a league since things got buffed, but they would quickly go back to spells because at the end, spells will still be better for POE's core gameplay which is mapping. Last edited by Baharoth15#0429 on Aug 4, 2022, 9:36:40 AM
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" 100% Yes, Kitava's feast heavy strike is one of my favourite builds i've ever done but it simply isn't numerically acceptable anymore. It cleared the screen, it was relatively fast you can't expect melee to be tornado shot and the character was extremely fun to play. Characters still on my list even. I know why people say numerical buffs wouldn't fix melee but those statements are usually made by people who don't play melee already who are looking for a big enough jump to persuade them. To those of us that still play melee or are on the fence its a huge difference. You've got EA ballista totems on champion being a meta build yet somehow players think damage doesn't compensate for mechanics, of course it does you can fix nearly anything in PoE with gear and passives given the right numbers. |
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The main thing gear can fix IS damage though. I took a look at your Heavy Striker and then out of curiosity, inserted a non legacy version of your weapon to my Earthshatter Champion and switched the gem to Heavy Strike, no other changes. Ended up with 6 mio dps without flasks and 13 mio DPS with flasks up and similar defenses.
So yeah, if you really want to play that build, just get some decent gear for the rest of the character since the weapon is pretty much set. I know people here tend to think that melee damage comes from the weapon alone, but honestly, it doesn't. Last edited by Baharoth15#0429 on Aug 4, 2022, 10:25:07 AM
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Keep in mind that characters from metamorph lol but yeah but you've hit on the problem in your own statement which is if I put Earthshatter in I'd just be a better character, probably substantially so without any additional changes.
Its gotta be HC viable too as thats where I play I could absolutely player HS on SC already i'd just cut defence until dps was acceptable and eat a death occasionally. The point is really I shouldn't have to do that and if the numbers were there I wouldn't have to do that. The worst thing about heavystrike at the moment is Boneshatter, talk about a superior skill I can't think of a better example. Had great fun with that one in expedition. I'm gonna make a Sunderboi in the next league as my melee pleb as they pushed that one into the worth trying category, i'm rambling here but the point is for a melee enjoyer like myself a 50% buff to heavy strike is the difference between me playing a build I enjoy, and not playing it to play something that has more acceptable numbers. That might seem like it doesn't matter but frankly It wouldn't be worse, they could double strike damage across the board and It would look better than 3 leagues of DD doing 50mil ignites with a level 1 gem. Last edited by Draegnarrr#2823 on Aug 4, 2022, 10:41:20 AM
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" I just roughly tested MY melee build i planned to play this league. It's hot garbage.  This feels like paper thin. First map i entered, Burials with damage mods, Rare two taped me 3x in the row. Ok, bad combo... Let's try Mino with Guardian's Aid and damage mods. They demolished me. People complained that melee this league was particularly bad but this is beyond bad. Even 100% more damage wouldn't compensate for the defenses you need to have to survive being in the face and bashed constantly. |
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The way to make melee viable and also one of the more fun gameplay styles is already in the game and it’s called something like “gaping black hole vortex” or something like that. Nobody remembers because the skill sucks, just not the right way.
Imagine if gaping black hole had no cool-down and could suck in the whole screen excluding rares and bosses after each movement skill use. Melee and other small aoe skills that have fallen into oblivion would suddenly become usable again. And not only usable but outright addicting. The setup monsters into a kill zone in order to obliterate them gameplay is amazing. Trust me, I play other games that have it. It’s not gonna beat headhunter zoomies but it’s a start I think. I'm a forum warrior, i was born to post, raised to defend my league. Now my post has been removed, chained and exiled by mods who Ban. Ban is my brother; i do not fear it. I see it in the eyes of men and beasts that i troll. It will take me to play the actual game when i am ready and i am not ready. Last edited by Pyrokar#6587 on Aug 4, 2022, 11:23:38 AM
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Add Atlas keystone: Monster density decreased by A LOT but monster HP is also increased by A LOT and they are more dangerous. Of course they would drop as much as a normal map would have.
Viola you created a Game mode for skill gems without built in screen wide AoE. And you know what is the best, since it is a Atlas passive it is your own choice. |
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