PoE mobile vs Diablo Immortal release

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Foreverhappychan wrote:

re streamers as 'community'

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DarthSki44 wrote:

Speaking of projecting... how in the fuck is this "the community reacts"

https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/3264149

Ugh the Twitch = The PoE community fallacy

What, you'd expect anything less from the same people who define melee as 'any form of attack that uses a melee weapon to deal damage regardless of range' or have repositioned a substantial if as yet actually unsubstantial expansion as 'a sequel'?

GGG have been playing games with language from the start. As long as it was purely in-game and consistent, well, fair enough.

But this? 'Community' being a whole six streamers?

Never mind the number, let's stick with the core issue.

Calling popular streamers who profit from playing your game 'your community' is like calling lobbyists 'average voters'. It completely undermines the actual community's agency and influence. It's bullshit, honestly -- and I was glad to see people saying as much in the comments. A slow news day is not sufficient excuse to so casually use a few professional streamers as a legitimate sample of 'the community'.

Reprehensible.

I never thought one of the Gs in GGG might stand for 'gaslighting' but gosh, sure does seem like it doesn't it?

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Nubatron wrote:

I'm kind of looking forward to both POE Mobile and Diablo on Mobile. The Diablo franchise felt like it got a bit too shallow for my main gaming on PC, but for mobile it's probably about right -- assuming they follow the D3 path rather than D2, which seems like a good bet.

I think the ARPG genre in general has a good 5-10 year arc coming.

It feels like a streamlined D3 but with residual D2 story elements; the former is very playable, the latter is genuinely interesting to a Diablo fan. I honestly can't put it any clearer than that.

That honestly sounds perfect for a mobile platform.

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zakalwe55 wrote:

Sure, 30M players to start. Up to Blizzard to see if they stay. I still think it is a good start compared with competitor PC numbers. I think most people would play on PC given the choice. Part of the reason Blizzard decided to make PC port was because they noticed people playing for 3 to 4 hours at a time.

From Wikipedia: "By November 2018, Blizzard stated that Hearthstone had achieved over 100 million players.[152] In the November 2021 Year of the Phoenix Review, Blizzard reported that there were over 20 million active players in 2020.[153]" Hearthstone doesn't have 100 million players anymore.

Yup, not a lot of ARPGs on mobile so Blizzard has very little competition.
As for DI on PC, I know at least one company that has a FTP model with cosmetic MTX and is profitable. DI doesn't have to more profitable than Hearthstone, just more profitable than other ARPGs to be considered successful. Also, Hearthstone is really expensive for players. I wish I could play Hearthstone with a $5 Battle Pass every month. Perhaps that is the reason why Hearthstone doesn't have 100 million players now.

Well, i will not deny the fact that 30m to start is not a bad start
But point is(and thats think little white knight failed to see) is not a strong start either by mobile free to play standards, angry birds decides to launch a game today im positive it will have a download count that put those 30m in the pocket for example. Other thing about it is that it dont actually counter my original point that there seems to be no hype or expectations for a good game on DI: for all we know(and that strongly seems to be the case), those are just people with a "well its a big franquise name, so i suppose ill give t a try" mentality. Even if that 30m were 90m, it wont actually prove that these people expects anything more than a game you complete the campaign and dich. Those types of games dont have a long life on the free-to-play model almost no matter how solid the actual gameplay is because they dont actually compel people to fork cash(the whole point of making a game)

And people playing 3 to 4 hours speaks AGAINST the game if you think about it: Games that expects long sessions every time are counter to mobile design simply because they strain the batery life, mobile games expects short sessions bar scheduled special events(mobile card games are unpopular on pc crowds largely because of this, btw... they are rigged to end early by design with very spiney metas). DI will have to find a way to somehow cather a crowd that is not used to be expected to 3hours session as ARPGs are(one way this was done on a number of titles before is taking advantage of it with a pay gate that asks you to fork cash to be able to mantain long sessions, going back to my point many posts ago, you can separate the mobile and pc/console crowds by how well they would take it: mobile crowds react okay to these type of gates, but pc crowds... to illustrate how well that would go to the average ARPG player, just try to picture if GGG puts in the patch notes that players will have to pay to be able to open more instances in a set time after a certain point... i bet the game would be a ghost of itself afer a month)

And i didnt meant to say hearthstone have 100m users today: No game ever keeps all its players for so much time, hearthstone is almost a decade old by now, give it a break. Point was, it managed to get a crowd of 100m active users even years after its launch. Free to play games almost always put strong download numbers no matter now niche they are. Download counters dont matter: im fairly positive poe also have millions of raw donload numbers, even tho its on pc. Irrelevant because most of those dont even reach malachai, its just the nature of free to play. Will DI have an ACTIVE number of accounts on 100m-ish years after launch? I find it hard, esp if it starts with barely half of that on launch

And you might say DI just need to be more sucessful than other APRGs on mobile to be considered sucessful... i suppose we will just have to agree to disagree on that... its just a VERY low bar for a company the size of blizzard: devoting time from a developing team and just getting those scraps in return for your time is almost like a millionare bothering to call customer suport because he noticed one transaction charged a few pennies more than it should have. It would just be a case of really aiming low, was that blizzcon fiasco really worth it just for that?

^

Ok can we just sum up the last few pages where you have railed against DI for reasons I STILL dont think you have made clear?

Apparently you think DI will fail / underperform / underwhelm, and is being recieved with "cold indeference" from the gaming community. This I understand from your statements.

That said can you explain WHY you think this? What about DI leads you to believe it wont do well? (30 million pre-registerd aside I guess..)

Why do you think DI is getting this "cold indeference?" Surely you can't still be hanging your hat on a Blizzcon meme from years ago as the sole reason.

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DarthSki44 wrote:

^

Ok can we just sum up the last few pages where you have railed against DI for reasons I STILL dont think you have made clear?

Apparently you think DI will fail / underperform / underwhelm, and is being recieved with "cold indeference" from the gaming community. This I understand from your statements.

That said can you explain WHY you think this? What about DI leads you to believe it wont do well? (30 million pre-registerd aside I guess..)

Why do you think DI is getting this "cold indeference?" Surely you can't still be hanging your hat on a Blizzcon meme from years ago as the sole reason.

Okay, to sum it up:
1-To put in no uncertain terms: IM NOT SKEPTICAL ABOUT DI IN PARTICULAR!!! Im skeptical about ANY ARPG that ventures the mobile scene. For tons of reasons i explained in numerous posts, but basically, i can tell for a fact the vast majority of big names on mobile focus heavily on microtransactions and i dont see how you can implement it into an ARPG without serious compromise to gameplay or straight up turning it into a pay-to-win wich the average ARPG player shuns. I said in the my first post that if PoE mobile does comes out, i also think it too will crash and burn

2-My main reason for thinking the general public is cold towards DI is mainly that the DI announcment didnt revert or even slow down the current fall on blizzard on the stock market. Investors are a very sensitive bunch when it comes to sensing antecipation towards a product and the fall on the stocks despite the biggest announcment you could make signals the market thinks the average gamer is not looking at DI
The other metric is youtube viewership. Its the biggest open source of visibility we have atm and when we look at the viewership of anything official related do DI on the last 3 years, the viewercount is very, VERY low. Yeah, not everyone rely on youtube for info, but other sources dont show viewer or readership count(not to mention, gaming journalism is an absolute joke) so youtube viewership is the most objective metric we have to measure how many people are looking for DI-related news and, again, its a low number. Compared to other videos blizzard put out in the past from other games, and compared to videos regarding D4 right now, its very apparent a very reduced pool of people look for DI news. News about blizzard games ALWAYS gather millions of viewers, DI can only muster less than a fith of that and its been consistent for years now, so yeah, i can sort of tell the average gamer is looking at DI as an afterthough, not with antecipation

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feike wrote:

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DarthSki44 wrote:

^

Ok can we just sum up the last few pages where you have railed against DI for reasons I STILL dont think you have made clear?

Apparently you think DI will fail / underperform / underwhelm, and is being recieved with "cold indeference" from the gaming community. This I understand from your statements.

That said can you explain WHY you think this? What about DI leads you to believe it wont do well? (30 million pre-registerd aside I guess..)

Why do you think DI is getting this "cold indeference?" Surely you can't still be hanging your hat on a Blizzcon meme from years ago as the sole reason.

Okay, to sum it up:
1-To put in no uncertain terms: IM NOT SKEPTICAL ABOUT DI IN PARTICULAR!!! Im skeptical about ANY ARPG that ventures the mobile scene. For tons of reasons i explained in numerous posts, but basically, i can tell for a fact the vast majority of big names on mobile focus heavily on microtransactions and i dont see how you can implement it into an ARPG without serious compromise to gameplay or straight up turning it into a pay-to-win wich the average ARPG player shuns. I said in the my first post that if PoE mobile does comes out, i also think it too will crash and burn

2-My main reason for thinking the general public is cold towards DI is mainly that the DI announcment didnt revert or even slow down the current fall on blizzard on the stock market. Investors are a very sensitive bunch when it comes to sensing antecipation towards a product and the fall on the stocks despite the biggest announcment you could make signals the market thinks the average gamer is not looking at DI
The other metric is youtube viewership. Its the biggest open source of visibility we have atm and when we look at the viewership of anything official related do DI on the last 3 years, the viewercount is very, VERY low. Yeah, not everyone rely on youtube for info, but other sources dont show viewer or readership count(not to mention, gaming journalism is an absolute joke) so youtube viewership is the most objective metric we have to measure how many people are looking for DI-related news and, again, its a low number. Compared to other videos blizzard put out in the past from other games, and compared to videos regarding D4 right now, its very apparent a very reduced pool of people look for DI news. News about blizzard games ALWAYS gather millions of viewers, DI can only muster less than a fith of that and its been consistent for years now, so yeah, i can sort of tell the average gamer is looking at DI as an afterthough, not with antecipation

So:

1. You have concerns about the entire mobile arpg market and skeptical any version from any company will be sucessful, DI is just included amongst them. Ok fair. I disagree but at least your opinion is clear.

2. Do you honestly believe the vast majority of folks that are interested in DI, or any Blizzard games for that matter, actually own Blizzard stock, or are influenced in their purchase decisons by the current state of the stock? Even if there was investor hesitance, I don't agree that translates to the decision making by the average gamer. Agree to disagree here.

3. YouTube viewership as a gauge to idk... I guess hype, seems like a faulty measurement to beign with. YouTube content creators have financial motives that compel them to say this or that. Sometimes its clickbait anger to get views, sometimes is ulterior motives due to sponsor or ad revenue. I would disagree, in general, that it's an "objective measurement".

Edit: Spelling

2-You are looking at it the wrong way around: Gamers are not influenced by stock, but the other way around absolutely does happen
Investors who venture gaming companies stock market keep a close eye on what the public seem to think about an upcoming game. A title launch is the single most significant event on the usual schedule of a game company and when a close launch date is announced and the game is heavily antecipated, the stock moves up because investors are antecipating a high spike following the launch

3-Youtube viewers are a measure to how many people are looking and actually waiting for the game, as my point when i say its cold towards DI is people are not looking at it, thus, not expect great things from it. Will it be a great hit? Maybe, but thing is, if thats the case, it will be a pleasant surprise, but WONT alter the fact very little people are eagerly antecipating a great game now. Low viewer count shows few were bothering to keep track of the progress of the gane since the fated blizzcon 3 years ago
And no need to talk about 3rd parties content creators, btw... I talk about numbers from the official videos, when the content creator was blizzard themselves, if people not bothering to look at official announces put by the developers themselves dont showcase indiference towards an upcoming title, idk what does

Well I dont agree that investor sentiment (which imo had way more to do with issues beyond DI, and more about toxic company culture), indicates much about the DI launch and feelings about the game. Gamers will decide. Bottom line.

Also the notion that folks memeing in the comment section of a YouTube official trailer or video, indicates the trajectory of massive IP (in terms of tens of millions-or hundreds of millions), to me is giving far too much credence to trolls and review bombers.

Either way, we will know soon.

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DarthSki44 wrote:

Well I dont agree that investor sentiment (which imo had way more to do with issues beyond DI, and more about toxic company culture), indicates much about the DI launch and feelings about the game. Gamers will decide. Bottom line.

Also the notion that folks memeing in the comment section of a YouTube official trailer or video, indicates the trajectory of massive IP (in terms of tens of millions-or hundreds of millions), to me is giving far too much credence to trolls and review bombers.

Either way, we will know soon.

Ehhh... no... you are wrong when you say investor are concerned about toxic w/e or issues beyond DI... Investors care about one thing and one thing only: How much $$$ the title is expected to fork
To give an objective example: Eletronic Arts, the infamous EA... Name one company with a name more tarnished, with a record more infamous, with a model more toxic, i fking dare you! Share value 122.36 vs blizzards 77.01... Toxic cluture means nill if the company still can be expected to deliver profitable titles

Do notice tho: I am not using it as metric that DI cant be a great game, my point is just that the expectation is a flop. Maybe it will be an awesome game! Dont change the fact the current projection is a flop

And i didnt mentioned comments section, i said number of views the video got. I dont know what the comment section has to say or meme and i dont care. Dont change the cold fact few people are memeing or trolling. People meme and troll in places where there are public to troll, D4 videos is an awesome place to meme and troll because there are actually tons of people to be trolled. DI... just dosnt have the public to even atract this kind of attack, people are not bothering to look at those videos

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feike wrote:

The 100m number is not something i pulled from my rear, btw... its the number of active users hearthstone has. Yeah, that game managed to keep a pool of 100m to play AND STAY on the game. THATS what i would call blizzard standard

A few moments later:

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feike wrote:

And i didnt meant to say hearthstone have 100m users today: No game ever keeps all its players for so much time, hearthstone is almost a decade old by now, give it a break. Point was, it managed to get a crowd of 100m active users even years after its launch. Free to play games almost always put strong download numbers no matter now niche they are. Download counters dont matter: im fairly positive poe also have millions of raw donload numbers, even tho its on pc. Irrelevant because most of those dont even reach malachai, its just the nature of free to play. Will DI have an ACTIVE number of accounts on 100m-ish years after launch? I find it hard, esp if it starts with barely half of that on launch

You did capitalize the "AND STAY" in the "AND STAY on the game". You have no credibility. What would you know about Blizzard standards?

Now you are comparing DI to Angry Birds? Moms played Angry Birds.

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zakalwe55 wrote:

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feike wrote:

The 100m number is not something i pulled from my rear, btw... its the number of active users hearthstone has. Yeah, that game managed to keep a pool of 100m to play AND STAY on the game. THATS what i would call blizzard standard

A few moments later:

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feike wrote:

And i didnt meant to say hearthstone have 100m users today: No game ever keeps all its players for so much time, hearthstone is almost a decade old by now, give it a break. Point was, it managed to get a crowd of 100m active users even years after its launch. Free to play games almost always put strong download numbers no matter now niche they are. Download counters dont matter: im fairly positive poe also have millions of raw donload numbers, even tho its on pc. Irrelevant because most of those dont even reach malachai, its just the nature of free to play. Will DI have an ACTIVE number of accounts on 100m-ish years after launch? I find it hard, esp if it starts with barely half of that on launch

You did capitalize the "AND STAY" in the "AND STAY on the game". You have no credibility. What would you know about Blizzard standards?

Now you are comparing DI to Angry Birds? Moms played Angry Birds.

Like... serious?
You seriously REALLY though i said stay literally meaning stay in the fcking game until the sun goes nova???

Hearthstone managed to make 100m people to stay in the game for 4 fking years, that more than qualifies to say it managed to get people to stay in the game, do you even know the average lifespam of videogames??? A game living for so much time and mantaining a strong playerbase is a huge sucess

You mom played angry birds and the entire US`s worth of people, it shows how sucessful the series is, is it wrong go compare a title from a major company to a sucessful title? Its fking common sense to aspire to the standards of the big ones if you are also a top dog in the industry! YOUR insistence to compare DI to a bunch of insignificant titles of no importance watsoever is what dont make a lick of sense. Do you trully bellieve you can call a game with the D brand a success if it outperforms a bunch of titles that earn barely enough to just keep the server running???

You dont bellieve that an ARPG can be compared to any other kind of sucessful game just for being an ARPG? So we should just analise each type of game like each one if a fking island in a vacuum? Please...