why (in my opinion) the game feels bad

wish there will be NO MORE timers and forced zoom zoom meta mechanics... this way game would win more

Im not struggling at all lol... its a giant slow slog.

Example... minions. Its a constant recast now. open scourge = minions dead.

When you put nothing but obstacles designed to slow the game down it really kills the fun.

NS

"

stalkingjackal wrote:

agree with the speed meta and GGG pushing leagues that require some level of clear speed, but what do you mean by "normal and expected content"? Almost any build can do every map tier, conquerors & maven with reasonable time/money invested. (I said 'almost' because obviously there are totally dead skill gems that no one uses and GGG has forgotten that they exist) Efficiency is another issue altogether and yeah there is a huge variance among builds in that aspect.

Seems to me like all the issues (except trade being horrible which is true) are related to a mindset of 'winning the game' rather than playing and enjoying it. Winning PoE is hard, its designed to be grindy and played for a long amount of time. I play slowly and mostly ssf, so it takes me ~1.5-2 months every league to do all the new content but in the past i've been able to do all regular and aspirational content. But to me that's more enjoyable than trading like a maniac and trying to do all endgame stuff in week 1.

[/quote]

If you weren't level 32, I'd say you might have some good points here. But I'm mostly just confused... you should NOT be having this much trouble on any build at the start of act 4. I don't care how off-meta you're playing, even heavy strike and sweep can easily clear the story mode. I'm currently levelling an unleash fireball tornado assassin, which goes beyond off-meta into being pure meme garbage, and I'm still turning entire screens to dust at level 50 because the game is that easy before you get to maps.

If you are genuinely struggling to beat act 4 and you aren't brand new to the game (which you don't seem to be), I would immediately reroll because your build clearly has very basic fundamental problems that aren't worth the regret orbs to fix. Anyone should be able to reach maps on a 4L with zero gear on any skill in the game, provided their build and passive tree make ANY sense at all.[/quote]

"

Nightstone13 wrote:

Example... minions. Its a constant recast now. open scourge = minions dead.

When was that any different? Minions always sucked in early game, what was changing is only how much :)
Later on, sure, they will die sometimes if the content is really nasty, but a good summoner can still keep them alive as well as can be expected. Sometimes the poor things just have to lay their lives for their master and that's the way it should be.

Now, I won't be the one to say that some things aren't more tedious than they should be during levelling, but that wasn't a very good example of a recent change for the worse.

"

Nightstone13 wrote:

Im not struggling at all lol... its a giant slow slog.

Example... minions. Its a constant recast now. open scourge = minions dead.

When you put nothing but obstacles designed to slow the game down it really kills the fun.

NS

I mean, it really does sound like you're struggling. I don't know what word you'd rather use, but if you're having any trouble at all with content or bosses, to the point where they are more than a slight inconvenience, and you're in act 3, and you're not a brand new player... yeah, your build has gone very wrong.

Either your passive tree makes no sense, or your support gems make no sense, or you're just using the worst possible items, or some combination of the three. Like, I could literally make a new character right now and default-attack malachai to death within 4 hours. The game is not yet hard in Act 3, you're less than halfway through the tutorial. I feel weird saying this to someone who has apparently been playing PoE for YEARS, but maybe you should consider going to GD and getting some build help? Even my friends on their second ever league of Path didn't struggle with Act 3...

"

ARealLifeCaribbeanPirate wrote:

"

Nightstone13 wrote:

Im not struggling at all lol... its a giant slow slog.

Example... minions. Its a constant recast now. open scourge = minions dead.

When you put nothing but obstacles designed to slow the game down it really kills the fun.

NS

I mean, it really does sound like you're struggling. I don't know what word you'd rather use, but if you're having any trouble at all with content or bosses, to the point where they are more than a slight inconvenience, and you're in act 3, and you're not a brand new player... yeah, your build has gone very wrong.

Either your passive tree makes no sense, or your support gems make no sense, or you're just using the worst possible items, or some combination of the three. Like, I could literally make a new character right now and default-attack malachai to death within 4 hours. The game is not yet hard in Act 3, you're less than halfway through the tutorial. I feel weird saying this to someone who has apparently been playing PoE for YEARS, but maybe you should consider going to GD and getting some build help? Even my friends on their second ever league of Path didn't struggle with Act 3...

It didn't sound like he was struggling to me. Not fun boring is not equal to struggling. Two different things. Sure there can be overlap but no way it means they overlap especially when he's said twice that it does not apply to him in this case.

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Turtledove wrote:

Spoiler

"

ARealLifeCaribbeanPirate wrote:

"

Nightstone13 wrote:

Im not struggling at all lol... its a giant slow slog.

Example... minions. Its a constant recast now. open scourge = minions dead.

When you put nothing but obstacles designed to slow the game down it really kills the fun.

NS

I mean, it really does sound like you're struggling. I don't know what word you'd rather use, but if you're having any trouble at all with content or bosses, to the point where they are more than a slight inconvenience, and you're in act 3, and you're not a brand new player... yeah, your build has gone very wrong.

Either your passive tree makes no sense, or your support gems make no sense, or you're just using the worst possible items, or some combination of the three. Like, I could literally make a new character right now and default-attack malachai to death within 4 hours. The game is not yet hard in Act 3, you're less than halfway through the tutorial. I feel weird saying this to someone who has apparently been playing PoE for YEARS, but maybe you should consider going to GD and getting some build help? Even my friends on their second ever league of Path didn't struggle with Act 3...

It didn't sound like he was struggling to me. Not fun boring is not equal to struggling. Two different things.

It really isn't, though? Again, we're talking about act 3. If you aren't one-shotting enemies, you are struggling. Also, this same guy has a concurrent thread about not being able to beat Dominus, so...

My biggest problem with the new, improved PoE v1.5 introduced in 3.15 -- other the god forsaken performance and texture streaming -- is that no amount of defense feels like enough. Life, ES, evasion, armor, block, suppression, resistances, stun evade, ailment avoid, stun avoid... Still get one-tapped out of nowhere. And it's not successive hits anymore. We went from multiple hits that were so fast they appeared like one-shots to actual, literal one-shots. I have a trapper with more defenses than any character I've ever had before, and I'm struggling in t16s. God forbid I run a boss map.

What vexes me about the changes since 3.14 is the question why GGG try to combat an already largely imagined problem (power creep is a thing in most games, and lots of games easily hold pace by introducing new challenges...) in a way that is so profoundly illogical. What is to be gained from this?

Just because you have people who put in the time, effort and creativity to get ahead way of the projected average performance, you do not handicap everyone just so your real average gets closer to what you think it should look like. In an elementary school math class you would not make the students write with quills on parchment by candlelight because you have one or two children who could already pass their A-levels. Instead you get those students advanced materials that can actually interest and challenge them.

(To anyone who has ever played pen & paper RPGs this might also seem familiar. At least if you ever had a DM who interpreted his role as 'playing against the players' instead of having fun by cooperating with them to make a memorable game...)

In terms of monetization, I can similarly not see an advantage. Sure, people might (and that is already quite an assumption) spend more time ingame because progress has pretty much slowed to a crawl for many, but would this really entice people to actually buy stuff? For me personally it had the exact opposite effect.
The trailers looked nice, some of the QoL features they announced really struck a nerve, as well. I was quite prepared to buy a supporter pack or two a few days into the league.
Guess what? By the time I reached that point I had definitely cancelled any and all plans to spend money this league.

I'll just go and assume that I am not the only one who made such a decision.

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GrumpyMcElbows wrote:

3.15 ruined PoE.

The three month dev cycle, the trade manifesto, the buyout, and focus on streamers/"aspirational content" ruined PoE. It just took a while for the errors each one caused to pile up. I haven't played since Metamorph, but it started before that, and every time I show up to the forums people are complaining about the same stuff that's all rooted in the same underlying problems.

PS: I honestly feel like another problem is how minions work; i.e., they're the ultimate incomparable defense benefit, they're almost always either OP or useless, their scaling is nuts. But I don't really hold that against them since I don't know of a game that's implemented a good solution to that. They've actually come sorta close to what I think is the right decision there: give minions to everybody. And everybody can have them, theoretically. Not really good enough, though. To balance a game for minions, I think you have to make a reason to use them on every part of the skill tree, and just make that reason different for each archetype. I feel like the themes expressed in their plot/setting made this game always a natural place for that approach, I dunno why they won't commit.

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Konigsburg wrote:

Just because you have people who put in the time, effort and creativity to get ahead way of the projected average performance, you do not handicap everyone just so your real average gets closer to what you think it should look like. In an elementary school math class you would not make the students write with quills on parchment by candlelight because you have one or two children who could already pass their A-levels. Instead you get those students advanced materials that can actually interest and challenge them.

To be fair, that's exactly what they think they're doing when they make leagues that are "overtuned white mob near a funny visual effect one shots you." I don't completely disregard the idea of aspirational content, but their idea of when that should start is a trainwreck.