Eternal Labyrinth Improvements in Path of Exile: Scourge

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Innomen wrote:
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dyneol wrote:

You still did not explain how any of it is "sexist". Just to make sure: sexism is the discrimination of sexes, not about your unfulfilled desire to play certain avatars. And before you even try: Not having a certain game feature is not sexism, if that was the case, everything would be racist and sexist and what have you ... everyone will find a missing feature somewhere. Many people have this state of mind already, unfortunately, where everything is offending if it doesn't meet certain dogmatic demands - but that is a unsustainable and destructive mindset.


So if the game had doctors and nurses and only female avatars could be nurses, that wouldn't be sexist.

The mental gymnastics fans (in the original sense of the word) never ceases to amaze.

Not that it matters, clearly GGG looked at labs and classes and concluded everything in junky dory. And thus so did the fans.


but it ..doesn't have doctor's and nurses?

Lol, like ..what?

Your right, GGG is totally and completely sexist and did all of this just to suppress the common woman /eyeroll


Aaanyway, I LOVE this change, as a somewhat casual player getting those 6 runs in was an extreme PITA, 90% of the time id just pick setups that didnt really NEED the 4th Lab..just so I didnt have to bother searching for them.
Last edited by Rioden123 on Oct 13, 2021, 5:19:41 PM
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Innomen wrote:
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dyneol wrote:

You still did not explain how any of it is "sexist". Just to make sure: sexism is the discrimination of sexes, not about your unfulfilled desire to play certain avatars. And before you even try: Not having a certain game feature is not sexism, if that was the case, everything would be racist and sexist and what have you ... everyone will find a missing feature somewhere. Many people have this state of mind already, unfortunately, where everything is offending if it doesn't meet certain dogmatic demands - but that is a unsustainable and destructive mindset.


So if the game had doctors and nurses and only female avatars could be nurses, that wouldn't be sexist.

The mental gymnastics fans (in the original sense of the word) never ceases to amaze.

Not that it matters, clearly GGG looked at labs and classes and concluded everything in junky dory. And thus so did the fans.


I totally agree with you, I've been wanting them to decouple character model and class since I first started playing 4 years ago. But I don't think enough people give a shit for them to ever do it.
Really love this change, helps out the casuals a lot more!
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Innomen wrote:
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dyneol wrote:

You still did not explain how any of it is "sexist". Just to make sure: sexism is the discrimination of sexes, not about your unfulfilled desire to play certain avatars. And before you even try: Not having a certain game feature is not sexism, if that was the case, everything would be racist and sexist and what have you ... everyone will find a missing feature somewhere. Many people have this state of mind already, unfortunately, where everything is offending if it doesn't meet certain dogmatic demands - but that is a unsustainable and destructive mindset.


So if the game had doctors and nurses and only female avatars could be nurses, that wouldn't be sexist.

The mental gymnastics fans (in the original sense of the word) never ceases to amaze.

Not that it matters, clearly GGG looked at labs and classes and concluded everything in junky dory. And thus so did the fans.


Again though, how is the labyrinth sexist?

You're talking about gender, which is not sex.
You're talking about ascendancies, which is different than the characters.

They aren't classes, they're people. They're referred to "Marauder", "Ranger", etc. because that is what the npcs identify them as. The game doesn't reference whatever character name you give them, nor their sex / gender; just their ethnicity, religion, skillset, etc..

The ascendancies are subclassses of those characters / identities, you can't have a marauder become a necromancer, anymore than you could have a christian templar become a necromancer.

And you know what? Maybe it is sex / gender based professions; just like final fantasy and other games. Maybe men can't be witches, and women can't be templars. You would have to go complain to their respective religious organizations.

You can totally make an argument that their could / should be an option to have two sexes for each identity, but then again you seem more interested in arguing for the sake of arguing, like going off on gender; so then GGG would need to make an entire LGBTQ+ roster for each "Class".

Or, they could just let the characters be the characters, like not trying to change Master Chief from Halo into a woman, or Mario into a woman, Samus Aran into a man, etc. just so you have an arbitrary sex/gender option.

And who knows what GGG has in store for PoE2.
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Rioden123 wrote:


but it ..doesn't have doctor's and nurses?

Lol, like ..what?

Your right, GGG is totally and completely sexist and did all of this just to suppress the common woman /eyeroll


Sexism cuts both ways. And it does have gladiators and witches. And it also has the scion which strongly implies one gender can have one if not two professions.

I realize a lot of this community enjoys having a bodypillow waifu for a character, I don't.

I played necro in D2. Excuse me for wanting the same level of personal engagement.

It's 2021, there's NO excuse to not have a male/female model for each class, and barring that, unlinking the systems is an easy fix.

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fddldd wrote:
I totally agree with you, I've been wanting them to decouple character model and class since I first started playing 4 years ago. But I don't think enough people give a shit for them to ever do it.


Yeah, verisimilitude and engagement in this game has essentially been written off by the community. We're definitely in the minority. I'm pretty positive essentially no one would pass a wraeclast history test.

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JoeShmo wrote:
the gold medal


Highly doubt you'd be doing such a deft triple backflip to attack ggg if they just let me choose my starting location, class, and ascendancy separately on the grounds of expanding build diversity.

The fans of this game are something else.
Credit where due. Scourge looks amazing, both league and general changes. Will be spending money. 2021-10-14 0344 PM
amazing change! Thanks GGG
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Innomen wrote:

Sexism cuts both ways. And it does have gladiators and witches. And it also has the scion which strongly implies one gender can have one if not two professions.

I realize a lot of this community enjoys having a bodypillow waifu for a character, I don't.

I played necro in D2. Excuse me for wanting the same level of personal engagement.

It's 2021, there's NO excuse to not have a male/female model for each class, and barring that, unlinking the systems is an easy fix.


It's funny you would mention D2, in which classes are also tied to fixed sexes.

But apart from that: How does each character having a fixed sex enforce any stereotypes or roles like you implied with doctors and nurses? Why should a ranger be female, why should the duelist be male? The witch is also hardly a witch in the traditional sense, because everyone can do magic in PoE. If you want a certain character model and voice for yourself to identify with your character, okay, i can understand if not relate, but saying this would be sexist is quite a stretch and also defies the definition of the word.

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Innomen wrote:
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fddldd wrote:
I totally agree with you, I've been wanting them to decouple character model and class since I first started playing 4 years ago. But I don't think enough people give a shit for them to ever do it.

Yeah, verisimilitude and engagement in this game has essentially been written off by the community. We're definitely in the minority. I'm pretty positive essentially no one would pass a wraeclast history test.


Obviously few people would pass such a test, because the story is badly told and had elements injected into it all the time, which is why it feels pretty chaotic. I don't really get why you would scold anyone for that though, the game is in its core a zoomey experience in which you do the same stuff over and over every 3 months, immersion is and verisimilitude are secondary matters at best with random characters popping up just like that, introducing yet another random threat to wraeclast (like tane and cassia).

It's absolutely not a role-playing experience in the traditional sense, so to 99+% of the community attachment to their character probably matters little to none.

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Innomen wrote:
Highly doubt you'd be doing such a deft triple backflip to attack ggg if they just let me choose my starting location, class, and ascendancy separately on the grounds of expanding build diversity.

The fans of this game are something else.


Is there any grounds for your demand for untying ascendancies and starting location other than "I want it that way because then I can optimise my builds more easily"? The character model I can understand, because it doesn't affect gameplay at all, but this would be a balance change and as such should have a reason for it - after all, it would make balancing the game harder for the devs, i'd assume.
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Archernar wrote:
It's funny you would mention D2, in which classes are also tied to fixed sexes.


And even then, despite being older than the pyramids, we had legacy of the horadrim mod that completely unlinked everything and used the cube to let you mix and match any skills on any character.

One of the main reasons I was so hooked on poe Initially was the similarity to this freedom. A big circular skill tree wasn't as good as LOTH's approach, but it was a huge step up, and I told myself it would only get better with time.

But since then it's definitely gone in a more choose Ryu or Ken direction with extra steps.

I no snark wish they'd just give us prefab characters to play, like when you choose a PVP starting skill.

That way casuals even would have a nice solid league starter.
Credit where due. Scourge looks amazing, both league and general changes. Will be spending money. 2021-10-14 0344 PM
Last edited by Innomen on Oct 13, 2021, 7:50:18 PM
Maybe the trial found in maps, where you only need one of them, will be larger than normal and feature burning, bleeding and poison all together in an ugly package!
"Gratitude is wine for the soul. Go on. Get drunk." Rumi
US Mountain Time Zone
Would have prefered a better solution than simply removing the problem... but it's better than not solving it... like for the last 8 years.

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