Path of Exile 3.16 Balance - Part 1 - Flasks and Ailment Mitigation

Having been involved with POE since beta, I used to brag to everyone that POE was the best RPG in the world because of its' complexity & re-playability. I never got tired of it. But, the trend has been to identify "problems" and "fix" those problems. This has resulted in an unacceptable level of complexity & confusion that is a turnoff for the "average" or "casual" player. Don't we still want those players involved in our game? Do we want to attract new players or are we satisfied with only the super-elite players that GGG caters to? It has become impossible for me to convince friends to play this game as it now stands - the level of complexity for the entry-level player is daunting. Instead of making the game MORE complex & unwieldy with every new expansion, we should be streamlining it and making it more fun to play. It's becoming a chore to keep up with all the new changes, rather than a pleasure. Am I alone in believing that this is NOT a good thing?
I have to say... I'm a little taken aback by the number of changes which are required to ailment mitigation, here. I'm not disputing the need to make these changes right now, or the details of any of the changes themselves, but the scope of the changes needed would seem to indicate that ailments, in their entirety, need a complete redesign.

This game has so many secondary ailments which are poorly understood by most players, poorly communicated to new players in particular, and which see little to no use as a result, and that's been true since the last major revision to the ailment system. Seriously... it's time to rethink everything you're doing in terms of ailments in the game, and ask yourself how much of it can be removed entirely without breaking anything that you actually need for PoE2.

Just a thought. Other than that... not bad. I like that some thought is being given to enabling slower play styles, without nerfing faster play styles into the ground. I wouldn't have minded seeing the game slowed down significantly, but since it seems you're back-tracking on that entire concept, I guess this is the next best option.

Of course, whether it's truly possible to keep both slow and zoom players happy, long term, remains to be seen.
If ailments are now going to be reactively cured through flask usage, I think there needs to be a more obvious way to identify ailments on you rather than looking in the upper left. Buff icons over your character's mini healthbar would be ideal.
Reaper0181 wrote:
Demonoz wrote:
axeltt012 wrote:
Rip using tempest shield to proc Orb of storm.... that was one of my favorite build.

Tempest Shield+OOS mechanics will still work the same the only difference is Tempest Shield will reserve Mana instead of just having uptime via activation and of course Shock Mitigation.

Just depends on how much mana it reserves. If its only 10% then its no big deal. If its 25%?... Well that might be a little bit of a problem but, still not build destroying.

that is not how you play the build you play it by cast tempest shiled rapidly to proc OOS not from block chain . iam just saying that its not nerf that play style is not going to work any more cause you cannot cast tempest shield.

Oh shit that is right i forgot all about that. I forgot you spam cast TS for massive amounts of hits. Yeah in that case it probably wont work at least nothing like before. Classic GGG... If it works and fun it has to go. Especially if its off meta.
There is a fine line between Consideration and Hesitation.
The former is Wisdom, the latter is Fear.
Last edited by Demonoz on Oct 7, 2021, 4:52:46 PM
jfc this is convoluted
A lot changes.
I read not all, but i hope GGG reads at least as much as i.

To make it more complex to understand the theory gives not more fun.
To change the bottles because the player has to click always and then reduce the time they work makes no sense.
To work on armor and evation and energy shild makes no sense, then the normal protection was never the problem. The problem is that you even with endles amror, 8T health and and and got oneshoted. Mostly not even know what happens. A bit more protection with armor helps here nothing...

and and and

I read so much more here in the forum witch is true and i hope only that GGG reads it too - not only twitch interview with full-time players...

I hope so that POE find the way back to game who wants fun for the players, not only fun for the programmers to see how even the strongest players die always.

And i hope that the changes are not that deep, that at the end are only 3 builds left who work.

P.S. Is it really necessary to nerf things, because groups who use special builds in the group are better as groups without? That is just the sense of a group, to have some specialist and use their skills...

At the end i am looking forward to a seasen who makes fun again - the last one was the first where i player almost never...
"Replace the Ailment Removal Modifier on Utility flasks with one that grants Ailment Immunity but lessens flask duration. Note that base durations on Utility flasks have been increased to compensate"

"All that fancy sword swinging when all you need is one good stab."
Really like the new format and the direction these changes are going. Will have to see how they hold up to the problem they are trying to solve. Keep up the good work.
The flip flop from last leagues manifesto is unreal, lol. Was revenue really that bad?

Bad jokes aside, one thing that concerns me is that GGG inherently doesn't understand the underlying reason as to why instant recovery from life flasks is so much better than anything else.
In 3.15, we changed how flasks prevent ailments and curses on you, but didn't provide enough reasonable alternatives for mitigating ailments.

Problem well-observed

Introduce a large number of options and improve existing options for characters to deal with Ailments. Characters should now be able to pick between reservation skills that mitigate ailments, remove effects reactively with life or mana flasks, gain immunity at a cost through Utility Flasks, or use improved modifiers on items and the passive skill tree to mitigate ailments and curses.

Solution sounds thorough and complete, the cost for immunity uptime being duration sounds clunky for people expecting 100% freeze immunity uptime, though that problem being addressed with easier ways to obtain it (pantheon and auras)

Many Flask modifiers grant buffs during Flask Effect, which isn't well-suited to a Life or Mana Flask's short and reactive nature.

yup, life and mana flasks are simply not built for utility buffs, fixing a long-standing design flaw is nevertheless always appreciated.

Added new modifiers to Life and Mana Flasks that are impactful but brief, and have a Duration rather than applying during Flask Effect.

as long as the buffs feel impactful, sounds like a perfect fix.

Utility Flasks are sustainable with enough character damage and clear speed, but there aren't easy ways to sustain Utility Flasks for less-powerful characters.

how accessible should flask sustain be is i think debatable, since the experience can be both exciting and stressful. i think the problem was that there was not enough options to build on flask sustain, and if Path of Exile is partly a become-a-god fantasy, every aspect of the game should be something that can be mastered, from internal struggles (flasks, mana, speed, etc.) to external struggles (challenges, fights and grand goals)

Add new modifiers and improve existing modifiers on Flasks that affect their duration or charge gain. Add some new Passive Skills to help sustain Flasks. Extend the base duration of Utility Flasks to reduce how often they need to be used.

and because reasons mentioned above, i find adding new ways to scale flask sustain very fitting.

Even after lowering the power of many Unique flasks in 3.15.0, Unique Flasks still outclass most Magic Utility Flasks. In addition, the item level of flasks did not matter after a certain point.

some unique flasks are obviously chase uniques, like dying sun and bottled faith, if they don't outclass normal flasks with only 2 rolled mods on them in some way, then their light should shine brighter. maybe the unique flasks outshined utility flasks too much? could be, but on that i tend to stay by the 'leave the chase items chase items' camp.

Add multiple tiers to most Flask modifiers. At higher levels, Flasks now have much more powerful effects available. Flask modifiers that increase Armour or Evasion are now weaker at their first tier as the changes to Armour and Evasion below make them more powerful. These changes allow us to restore some of the power that was removed from Flasks in 3.15 without affecting the early-mid game so much.

TLDR: flasks should have mod tiers like any other item and that lets end-game balance stay in late game, and not affect leveling.

well? i think a point should've been layed-out more clearly, with this change and many other in part 2 and 3, it seems the PoE team wants defense to be more evenly accessible throughout the character progression, with more emphasis on scaling and mix-scaling rather then cherry-picking very powerful and easily accessible buffs. like flasks, fortify, acrobatics, etc. all the above were changed to fit better a scaling approach rather then pure buffs with easily avoided or non-existent downside.

Instant-recovery Life Flasks are by far the most reliable tool for survivability, as the total Life recovery from a Flask is reasonable but spread over a long period of time.

generally about right, and it was made worse by that characters were often getting 1-2 shot, which made continuous recovery even less viable then it had to be.

Keep the total Life Recovery from all Life Flasks the same, but halve the amount of time for this to occur, which doubles their healing per second. This is a huge improvement to how effective non-instant Life Flasks are at keeping you alive in tough situations.

what a convenient time to address that! now that scaling defense to the point you should survive multiple hits is far more accessible, continuous recovery can actually work well! would be refreshing to choose NOT to use an instant life flask on life builds :D

There are no accessible tools for a player to change their charge gain method if gaining charges on kill isn't well-suited to their slower playstyle.

that can really suck, to scale your charges without a way to keep them when not specifically killing monsters, what about bosses? what about walking around and not going super-fast? that's a pretty serious problem...

Rework the "Survival" Jewels available from the "Through Sacred Ground" quest to let you gain charges another way, while reducing the charges gained from kills. These designs are still in progress.

if that's an easily-accessible method to KEEP charges active, then that's some well-deserved quality of life for charge-centric playstyles, they should be able to function most of the time and not lose their power or defense to something pretty much out of their control.

Rangers don't have a form of Life Recovery that they excel at, while almost every other core character has a signature special Recovery method.

yeah what's up with that? up until now felt like instant life-flasks and that's it, life on hit sounds great for archers, traps/mines, poison.. and leech for a continuous-recovery option also fits well! sounds great! about time..

Personal Conclusion:
i'm excited to try out new possibilities with defense scaling, ES, flask and charge sustain, new Tools and different approaches to my beloved Support builds :)

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