Please tell us what killed us, it is literally not hard.

If you use nvidia I recommend the nvidia experience action replay (save last 60s of video as avi) helps a lot

"

kaepae wrote:

So you don't need a log of 100k actions, just say the last 300? effects that hit.

That is 300 pieces of data you then need to log, in a system that currently have no capacity to do so, for each player. That would be a horrendous cost!

It could possibly be done client-side, but certainly not server-side.
I'm saying 'possibly' since I don't believe the client has all the information. Most likely the client only knows information like:
- Show effect 371 at position X,Y, with radius Z for T seconds
- Decrease player HP by X

All for a system that realistically very few would use, and which would not bring in extra income. Not a sound use of money...

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Cyzax wrote:

That is 300 pieces of data you then need to log, in a system that currently have no capacity to do so, for each player. That would be a horrendous cost!

It could possibly be done client-side, but certainly not server-side.
I'm saying 'possibly' since I don't believe the client has all the information. Most likely the client only knows information like:
- Show effect 371 at position X,Y, with radius Z for T seconds
- Decrease player HP by X

I've written in the post above the one you respond to that this is to be done at the client side, and the only reason I could imagine for it not to be possible is that the client does not receive full game state.

"

All for a system that realistically very few would use,

What do you base this on? I think every player that wonders what happened would have an interest in the explanation - the log. And it's been asked for many times on the forum.

"

and which would not bring in extra income. Not a sound use of money...

Not sure about that either. A general improvement of QoL I'm sure would have a positive effect in returns. Stash tab affinities is major QoL and to my knowledge players appreciate it. Player appreciation has to be correlated to the value stream somehow.


As for the server side cost, if the server needs to log, that will have an impact, but not that much. Packed the log could likely exist in 8kb of space per player, fixed size lines, rolling buffer, no IO of that 8kb unless death event.

Generating a floor full of items (filtered out clutter at the client side) that need to go across the net costs a lot more. So much more that the cost of this log is not significant.

But at least I'd understand :-)

Push to pc current damage and type, it caches last 2 seconds worth in memory (not in a log...and yes this is doable in most languages...maybe 2kb of mem used if done properly (at the pc level)...mb 3x that if encryption is required in some fashion). Upon completion, ie you Died (or proc'd to pull that data upon death; hell even from the chat...), export/push to chat just like death was (including the last 2-3 seconds worth of dps to mem...if Death is triggered post last 2-3 seconds)...done.

What then would that do to server load...depends on a ton of factors and yes in all forms there would be an increase in load. But plenty of other games have done it and to a much higher extent (ie pushing full text dps to log). Limiting the scope of push to mem (rather then log), limits server load and still gives a level* of answer to why we died. Depending on how they implement it, we* could survey that data out via a future plugin (or as a new part of current plugin) which would tell us ww what kinds of deaths are op'd (or need to be spec'd for...even at the boss level). Which is probably closer to the real reason they don't want this to happen...It's in effect giving away how they're killing characters, even at lower logging levels. Which would be a kinda silly way to look at it, but that could be a part of it. Most of the games these more recent games have a root in, told you how you died...but games have been getting away from that.

However it works out, its definitely not on their list atm to look at or fix, and i'll play regardless of whether its in game or not. This game, even despite the difficulty* of the last expansion, is a good f*cking game. Do i get mad when i die, yes...do i wish i knew why i died yes. Would i personally love to have a combat tracker (like ACT) to compare my setup against other folks, yes, would i data mine this...i might, i've done it in the past for other games, would that hurt POE and gameplay, i don't know. Is there something that tracks potential dps...yes, but potential != actual. Anyway, gl in your rolls folks...and to snowclone Z, may you die, more then i do (though thats not likely as i die all the damn time...due to glass canon minus the dps and no skill). =P

"

All for a system that realistically very few would use, and which would not bring in extra income. Not a sound use of money...

You mean the money they make by charging 10 bucks for a plain cloak? 50 bucks for a set of armor? 160 bucks support packs? They have the money and yes it goes to paying their employees, the servers, etc, but I would expect them to use this money for things players actually WANT, since Death Log is like the 2nd most requested feature in the game, it definitely would be worth the cost. Sure, you can't monetize it (or hey, maybe they could, they certainly make you pay real money to sell things on the official Trade site). But how about working on something that people will find useful and not a terrible league mechanic like Crucible.

At the end of the day, games have death logs, POE should have one, people want one, if GGG says they can't and not some randos on a forum, then fine. But it needs to be in POE2. Getting seemingly 1 shot doesn't not feel good. It should be hard to poll the last 1-2 seconds of combat.

"

Cyzax wrote:

It is in fact not easy...

The one-shot hit is not the norm, but the aberration. Usually what kills you is the cumulative effect of multiple smaller effects, degen, hits, tar meaning you can't move (I hate that one), ailments, and so on...

Presenting that in a meaningful way will be challenging... and in general people know why they die anyway... Most often it is because they charged into something they shouldn't have...

Well then how does one find out when they're not supposed to charge into something? I'm playing two days straight with zero threats and then I die in the blink of an eye to a rando medium-sized pack. No indication that that pack would have particularly strong but apparently they were.

So I'll disagree or I'm not most people but my guess is it's not uncommon. Why is it so difficult to acknowledge that there should be a better way to assess the situation?

They've never said it was hard...they do have a death log in another version of the game, the problem is the players, because they are VERY prone to knee jerk reactions and would bandwagoning nerfs to shit that dose not even need it because they fail to understand the deathlog.

Almost all deaths are a case of jumping into shit thinking you are safe because you get complacent and start forgetting shit can do serious damage with the right mods.

Last Epoch tells you what the last hit from the last monster that attacked you was whether you died or not. That would be a very smooth and easy solution.

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Turtledove wrote:

Last Epoch tells you what the last hit from the last monster that attacked you was whether you died or not. That would be a very smooth and easy solution.

It was fairly helpful even if most of the damage you are taking in last epoch is pretty obvious its not always, its admittedly easier to gear in last epoch so raising your defenses isn't such a big deal.

Just think about people who normally don't get chaos res but suddenly the death log is spamming them with (chaos killed you) and naturally as the log would be difficult to argue with many people would then begin treating chaos resistance more seriously or perhaps physical/spell/whatever.

It's not just a helper, its a teacher in a sense and so organic in how it would make people better at the game it almost defy's logic that we don't have one.

"

Nervantoss wrote:

They are lying. Just see the fact that POE is the only "modern" hNS where you don't know your damage.


Recording what object did to another it's just storing a number.


I suppose that the reason behind is probably there is too many bug and played will complain about it;

Regularly you can read stuff like "the damage was calculated incorrectly" or bonus or malus was not applied...Dev have obviously tool to show and track damage to ensure the math are correctly done.

Who know how many thing are actually not working

they aren't lying, it's just you who is guessing, blaming and insulting.

it's a neat trick of kids to provoke their parents but every parent can easily spot those.

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you probably never came near programming any working high performance software. of course do they have a debug mode which shows them every action done in detail but thats just for debugging, nothing else.

and even if you do program in a language that has time critical limitations like keeping a server tick of 33ms for calculating a 'action', you would be aware that every additional calc you do is very costly.