I'm here to defend PoE against any accusations of being a "pay to win" game

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Phrazz wrote:

But P2W is always a scale, and PoE is so far down low on that scale, that classifying it as "P2W!!!111" on the same level as real P2W games where you can buy direct power, is unfair.

That - on the other hand - is true as well.

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ScrotieMcB wrote:

Stash tabs are pay to win. They're also a permanent, diminishing returns purchase, which makes the p2w more palatable — but classy p2w is still p2w.

Stash tabs are more like the price of the game, with the free 4 tabs being the trial/demo version. However, you won't need more $30 worth of stash tabs to play comfortably. So if you consider PoE to be a $30 game with a free trial version, then no stash tabs aren't pay2win. I've played this game for 8 years, with only a currency, map, essence, div card, fragment and premium bundle worth of tabs (plus upgrading the starting 4 tabs to premium). Getting even more stash space is utterly unnecessary, unless you're a hoarder. There's little advantage to it.

Pay-2-play is closer in meaning to what stash tabs offer, rather than pay-2-win.

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Exile009 wrote:

the price of the game

exactly.

and that is not "f2p". "f2p" for me means: either investment of money OR time. So Warframe remains the only real f2p game for me.

Anyone knows if they got rid of those ugly Deimos areas ? I might play some again...

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___Hengist___ wrote:

"

Exile009 wrote:

the price of the game

exactly.

and that is not "f2p". "f2p" for me means: either investment of money OR time. So Warframe remains the only real f2p game for me.

Yeah, I haven't considered PoE a free-to-play game for a long time, 'cept in the most technical sense. It seems more accurate to me to deny it the F2P label than to apply the P2W label to it. I don't know much about Warframe's monetization.

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Exile009 wrote:

"

___Hengist___ wrote:

"

Exile009 wrote:

the price of the game

exactly.

and that is not "f2p". "f2p" for me means: either investment of money OR time. So Warframe remains the only real f2p game for me.

Yeah, I haven't considered PoE a free-to-play game for a long time, 'cept in the most technical sense. It seems more accurate to me to deny it the F2P label than to apply the P2W label to it. I don't know much about Warframe's monetization.

Can be labeled truly f2p but also ptw (if you want - booster packs for xp or mods etc). As a player you can trade your stuff for premium currency that others (less time/more money) can buy. So you really don´t need to spend a single cent except for a few skins if you really want to have those. In short :)

Its not pay to win, its mald to win. Sooner rather than later, the players are malding and CW wins. He and the trichologists. Its an eeviil cabal, i tell ya.

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teodar1987 wrote:

He and the trichologists.

This is where it gets hairy.

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teodar1987 wrote:

Its an eeviil cabal, i tell ya.

Cabal you say?



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The pay to win here I would argue is mouse cursors. That I bought. I barely play anymore and yet I keep supporting this game, because addiction and being able to come back is a real thing. Can't play too well with a Mac keyboard and mouse, though. But my Mac handles the game nicely if I don't shove it into 4k resolution. Only problem I have with the p2w aspect is that people are going to do what they want about it regardless. What does it matter what side of the fence you sit on, when we can all get into that side, through saving? Although if you have to save money to purchase video game crap, I question that as well.

The problem is that the devs created a solution to a problem they hard-coded into the game to keep retention high. "No space? Buy this!" but as far as P2W goes, it's not half-bad. It's just a marketing tactic. It's a business, and a company. I've worked for companies a lot more ruthless than POE. "You want to get ahead with us? With this company? Break your back! Have nightmares!" Spoiler alert: it wasn't healthy.

At least GGG is upfront about being owned by Tencent, and at least their buy-in has been improving the quality of MTXs vastly, is all I'm saying.

How do you win on PoE?