Crafting in this game is bad and it is base on 1990 standards
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Deadandlivin wrote:
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galuf wrote:
People still find their way dude. Yesterday I sold a maven and awakened orb to some dude and he showed me his items. He crafted an almost mirror tier minion wand(fractured minion double damage, +2, minion speed, trigger) and aura stacker boots himself in a day, we debated a bit and then I understood that once again I was way way not on par with crafting meta, that I'm clueless as f.
Both of his items, he crafted them himself, we are talking about 100ex+ value per item(30-40ex investment total if I had to give a rough estimate) and both processes had nothing in common while the process was pretty much streamlined for both. With a big variance on the outcome of one with double influence but he still would have used it if it was "botched" a bit.
What I'm trying to say here, is that PoE crafting, even atm where we miss harvest as it was in 3.13(and that imho we should still have), is a well oiled machine that is complex enough to look daunting/unplayable for low skill players and gg make it rain for people who know what to do with it, and it is designed this way.
Throw enough currency at an item and you will inevitbly get what you want. That's the problem with crafting in this game.
The problem is that the more currency you throw on an item, the LESS RNG you will have. Cheap items require more RNG, cheap items are basically gambling while crafting high end items are more deterministic. This is a massive problem in the game.
Also, just a quick comment on the dudes crafts. The wand you describe is nowhere near mirror tier. Guessing he fractured 66% minion dmg and double dmg, used some 4 socket resonators and got +2 minion skills and some minion attack speed while bench crafting trigger. Honestly, that's a very cheap and easy wand to make. The expensive part is the fracture. Everything else is cheap.
It's nowhere near mirror tier. A proper mirror tierwand would have 40% hatred effect as a suffix. That's a redeemer mod and you can't get influenced mods on fractured items. Anyone who buys that wand for more than 60 ex is probably scamming themselves.
I made a 9-link minion helm in Heist when Harvest didn't exist. It was my league project and required meta crafting.
It cost me 1400 exalted Orbs to craft that helm and it's the last time I'm ever metacrafting an item ever again. This type of crafting is the opposite of fun, it's misreble. The feeling of getting close and then having to rely on complete RNG exalted Orbs slams, fail, and then restart the process all over again makes you want to quit the game. That's bad game design.
Crafting in this game should be fun, not frustrating. The only ones who truly enjoy crafting is profitcrafters and rich people. Majority of people don't have enough money to craft items for themselves. They can't afford to throw all their currency gathered over a weekend on gambling for an item that you may not get. That's why majority of people just farm and buy items straight from trade because that's the only way they can ensure they get the exact items they need.
The crafting system in this game needs massive work. Very few people engage with it. The market follows a simple supply and demand correlation. The reason why crafters are the richest people in the game is because they literally are the only one crafting. No one else is crafting which is why these hideoutwarriors are able to charge massive premiums.
While the system is pretty confusing and the barrier for entry is big, that's not the main reason why people aren't crafting. I believe the main reason people aren't crafting is because there's only two real systems behind it. Either:
1. Gamble and hope you hit the jackpot.
2. Throw infinite amounts of currency until you get what you want.
Regular players hate gambling and don't have the currency to craft the gear they need so simply, the don't craft anything. They buy all they need from trade.
+ 1 000 000
I still cannot call current system as crafting.
Like, at all.
Its pure gambling, yeah. Not crafting.
Donno why they dare to call it so.
No matter what side you part with, Harvest ruined the game.
Almost 6 months passed by and most of thread/reddits/comments are still about Harvest.
It ruined the game for those who thought it was a huge mistake implementing it into the core game and it ruined the game for those who thought it was a huge mistake to nerf it.
I'm all in the first category. Harvest should have never been implemented into the core game. The experiment in the League should have been more than enough. The consequences of implenting it into the core game were so clear to every single person who had a clue about the game, that I don't buy the whole "GGG made a mistake" thing. I knew it was going to be nerfed to the ground since day 1 of Ritual and thousands of other people knew it as well. How can we possibly think that GGG didn't know it? I have my idea on why Harvest was implemented in its original form for 3 months into the core game but I'm not gonna discuss it here.
I barely played since end of Ritual League cause Harvest burnt the sh** out of me and I know many other people who are on the same boat as me.
I loved meta crafting before Harvest, I used to sink thousands of ex in it which gave me the purpose of making those ex in the first place which means gave me a goal while playing. Now metacrafting feels just bad because the ceiling of a perfect item after Elevated mods and Harvest has been raised through the roof making practically impossible to reach it. And one of the reason why I loved metacrafting was the sense of accomplishment it gave me those very rare times I got the item I wanted after spending thousands of ex.
We've all been on cocaine for 3 months straight during Ritual with Harvest in its original form and now it doesn't feel good to just drinking half pint of beer per day.
Would I rather still stay on cocaine? Not-at-all, it's bad for our health and I'm glad we are now clean. But it will take long time to feel good enough again.
It cost me 1400 exalted Orbs to craft that helm and it's the last time I'm ever metacrafting an item ever again. This type of crafting is the opposite of fun, it's misreble. The feeling of getting close and then having to rely on complete RNG exalted Orbs slams, fail, and then restart the process all over again makes you want to quit the game. That's bad game design.
I just have to fully disagree.
RNG and the way crafting in this game works is the best system I´ve ever seen. All other systems are way too simple and therefore lack the depth PoE has to offer. Mostly crafting is eigher way too deterministic or simply revolves around upgrading an item to the max level, each upgrade step pure luck based +1, +-0 or -1. No skill, and potentially a RMT-Sink as u could buy items that improve the chances to upgrade.
Crafting 6x perfect stats on an item is SUPPOSED to be this hard here. You might not like it, but thats what they think is fair. I have yet to see a different game where crafting actually has some steps in between like Poe.
Lets take essences for example, from the base mod you want to min-max endgame item:
1. Essences, throw t1 on it, live with whatver u get + your desired mod.
2. Throw more essences on it, try to hit a decent base item with a higher than average affix-level
3. Step 3 would be hitting possibly another t1 mod + decent others, now beast-crafting with remove suffix/add prefix and vise versa comes in handy
4. Step 4 would be hit a double T1 pref/suff, now harvest comes into play with reforging the suffixes/prefixes, potential situation where you would finish the item with metacrafting
5. The 5th iteration of the item would be getting perfect pref/suff affixes, potentially with fractured bases or a lot of currency on it. Harvest plays a role in finishing the item as well potentially aisling
So for every level of currency there is a designed item. And whats wrong with that? People cry so much about the game being random. It´s actually not. Its probabilistic. Theres a difference.
Last edited by Vennto#1610 on Aug 28, 2021, 1:51:52 PM
D2 crafting was 100% deterministic in regards to runewords, you may not get the perfect rolls or perfect base but you get the benefits from runeword you making. And you could cube runes and such with 100% success rate.
There was "chaos spamming" for charms rerolls but they weren't mandatory for endgame.
Slot machine crafting is PoE thing, there were no such thing in 90s.
Last edited by SpacePilot3000#1322 on Aug 28, 2021, 5:11:40 PM
It cost me 1400 exalted Orbs to craft that helm and it's the last time I'm ever metacrafting an item ever again. This type of crafting is the opposite of fun, it's misreble. The feeling of getting close and then having to rely on complete RNG exalted Orbs slams, fail, and then restart the process all over again makes you want to quit the game. That's bad game design.
I just have to fully disagree.
RNG and the way crafting in this game works is the best system I´ve ever seen. All other systems are way too simple and therefore lack the depth PoE has to offer. Mostly crafting is eigher way too deterministic or simply revolves around upgrading an item to the max level, each upgrade step pure luck based +1, +-0 or -1. No skill, and potentially a RMT-Sink as u could buy items that improve the chances to upgrade.
Crafting 6x perfect stats on an item is SUPPOSED to be this hard here. You might not like it, but thats what they think is fair. I have yet to see a different game where crafting actually has some steps in between like Poe.
Lets take essences for example, from the base mod you want to min-max endgame item:
1. Essences, throw t1 on it, live with whatver u get + your desired mod.
2. Throw more essences on it, try to hit a decent base item with a higher than average affix-level
3. Step 3 would be hitting possibly another t1 mod + decent others, now beast-crafting with remove suffix/add prefix and vise versa comes in handy
4. Step 4 would be hit a double T1 pref/suff, now harvest comes into play with reforging the suffixes/prefixes, potential situation where you would finish the item with metacrafting
5. The 5th iteration of the item would be getting perfect pref/suff affixes, potentially with fractured bases or a lot of currency on it. Harvest plays a role in finishing the item as well potentially aisling
So for every level of currency there is a designed item. And whats wrong with that? People cry so much about the game being random. It´s actually not. Its probabilistic. Theres a difference.
Why is crafting 'supposed' to be this hard? And it's not hard, it's just very improbable. Someone could get super lucky and get perfect rolls all the way to top tier. Not hard, just lucky.
It's mostly gambling. Take away the randomness and it is actually not 'hard' at all, just requires time, which of course can be skipped through p2w trade anyway - which would also be much cheaper.
I would actually prefer the best quality gear actually just drops in game as really low-chance RNG (with crafting being 'almost' as good), where at least playing the game is the investment required. But that's another topic altogether.
I think crafting in this game would be better if it was deterministic, then balanced around drop chances for the materials cost. Same crafting complexity but with a straightforward measure of investment required. But I think GGG seem to enjoy the trade/gambling aspect that keeps players hooked, so...
Last edited by Headsoup#4370 on Aug 29, 2021, 8:43:44 PM
It's mostly gambling. Take away the randomness and it is actually not 'hard' at all, just requires time, which of course can be skipped through p2w trade anyway - which would also be much cheaper.
which is forbidden? :D It´s not allowed to sell or buy currency with RMT, but yeah, base your argument on an illegal mechanic. :D
this is the earliest I ever quit a league. All of my gear is about as min-maxed as it can really get (on console, you have to craft your own shit because nobody crafts to sell and its annoying to search for rares on the market).
That's the thing with harvest, it would keep people playing trying to perfect their gear.
Why is crafting 'supposed' to be this hard? And it's not hard, it's just very improbable. Someone could get super lucky and get perfect rolls all the way to top tier. Not hard, just lucky.
It's mostly gambling. Take away the randomness and it is actually not 'hard' at all, just requires time, which of course can be skipped through p2w trade anyway - which would also be much cheaper.
You're missing the point of several posts in here; when you have enough currency, it's not a matter of luck anymore, it's a matter of time - and knowledge. At the high-end, most luck is gone.
And no, you're right, crafting isn't hard, it's gated behind currency and knowledge because good gear isn't supposed to be easy accessible. And no matter HOW easy or deterministic crafting gets, trade will always be cheaper. No. Matter. What. If you read the latest update, they ARE making crafting more accessible in the future. The META recipes will nott be hidden behind off-grid content and veiled mods will unlock even easier.
Anyhow, this game needs way better drops 6969 times more than it needs easier/better/more deterministic crafting.
Bring me some coffee and I'll bring you a smile.
Last edited by Phrazz#3529 on Aug 30, 2021, 4:06:54 AM
It cost me 1400 exalted Orbs to craft that helm and it's the last time I'm ever metacrafting an item ever again. This type of crafting is the opposite of fun, it's misreble. The feeling of getting close and then having to rely on complete RNG exalted Orbs slams, fail, and then restart the process all over again makes you want to quit the game. That's bad game design.
I just have to fully disagree.
RNG and the way crafting in this game works is the best system I´ve ever seen.
You know what I feel while crafting in poe? A strong wish to smash my monitor and uninstall poe. What I feel after I finished a craft? EMPTY and FRUSTRATED with only one thought - thanks god this torture is over...
Literally, crafting is VERY nervous and painful in poe, same goes for trading system...
3.13 Was the best league ever!
3.18 Rest in peace my beloved recombinators, I'm gonna miss you...
The first known European gambling house, not called a casino although meeting the modern definition, was the Ridotto, established in Venice, Italy, in 1638
