General Discussion - Expedition has had a slightly larger 7 day drop off than Harvest - Forum

GGG destroys flasks and increases mana multipliers to an insane degree "GGG doesnt care about player numbers!" GGG reverts most of the flask changes and nerfs mana costs :)	Posted by GraydingEarJames#5523 on Aug 1, 2021, 12:24:00 AM Quote this Post
" blindedbylight wrote: Putting aside the op's propensity for selecting a data set that is designed to support their point, player count, in and of itself, doesn't mean anything as a guide to the long term viability of the game. As it is simply used as a proxy for player spending. However, using player size as a proxy only works when it is based on the assumption that with a large enough sample player spend will "average out". At present there is anecdotal evidence (admittedly mainly Reddit, however, one thread had 4,000 separate likes which is arguably material), to suggest that many players who have bought supporter packs in the past are not spending. This is a much bigger issue for the GGG business model. It really doesn't matter if there are 40% fewer players or 70% fewer players as long as the big spenders keep spending. I would be really interested to see league specific player spending trends, however, the chances of this data being released is extremely low. Unfortunately, without this data the discussions around player count are largely irrelevant to the financial viability of the game. The changes also represent a challenge with regards to bringing new players in. The overwhelming majority of businesses needs a constant flow of new customers and there is nothing to suggest that GGG is different. Again there is no data available on this metric to make any reasonable commentary. Anecdotally, I've seen 10 different posters across here and reddit so far who said they tried to introduce someone to the game this league and all attempts went... poorly. Apparently Act 1 is either too slow, brutal, or boring (or all three) for people new to the game now. Original POE, Diablo 2 & 3, Grim Dawn, pretty much EVERY ARPG, etc, all had the first area be a cakewalk for a good reason. (same goes with any game really. Compare stage 1-1 in Super Mario Brothers to stage 8-1, etc) POE was gaining new players for a while anyways. All the latest leagues were upward trends in the peak number of players and the minimum after the league died down, for the most part. ...and then they did THIS update and well, here we are. Last edited by TiamatRoar#4443 on Aug 1, 2021, 1:23:49 AM	Posted by TiamatRoar#4443 on Aug 1, 2021, 1:22:24 AM Quote this Post
" Anecdotally, I've seen 10 different posters across here and reddit so far who said they tried to introduce someone to the game this league and all attempts went... poorly. Apparently Act 1 is either too slow, brutal, or boring (or all three) for people new to the game now. To be fair introducing people to the game has gone poorly since the 1.X expansions. The game is such a cluttered mess that sitting down and trying to learn everything presented to a new person is clownshoes. The games onboarding is awful at best.	Posted by j33bus#3399 on Aug 1, 2021, 1:45:52 AM Quote this Post
" Teplokot wrote: " innervation wrote: Given that Harvest was the biggest power creep the game had ever seen Mate, have you even played Harvest league? This. THIS is why people quit Harvest in the first seven days. Now show me all those plans made by professional demolition engineers for Expedition logbook farming to maximize rewards. Wait there is none. Cos Expedition is just an Abyss with extra steps. People are leaving because its boring as fuck I fucking hate when people try to use this as an argument. You literally cannot run that many t1 seeds without buying extras and people just needlessly overcomplicated the league. You literally could use every single seed you obtained at maximum rates with just 3 plots for each color, and 3 "all color" plots for the resulting higher seeds. There was literally 0 reason to recreate the reddit minmax here and it provides no benefit(not some small benefit, it literally sits unused) unless you were both buying t1 seeds every map AND buying t2-3-4 seeds simultaneously, while ALSO running all your seeds and never selling any of the drops/higher tiers. You could literally get the same result as that spreadsheet for normal play by placing 12 plots, 6 conduits, a few waterers around 3 plots, and storage wherever you felt like it. Harvest definitely wasn't for everyone, but the people screaming that the setup was somehow complicated were literally just parroting shit they didn't understand. There's no powercreep here. Creep implies it's slow and could be overlooked, this is a full out sprint.	Posted by cpurdy777#7874 on Aug 1, 2021, 1:48:19 AM Quote this Post
i appreciated initial harvest but it's like betrayal or heist, and why not delve... Restarting everything each new league is not cool. Last edited by Universalis#5776 on Aug 1, 2021, 2:13:29 AM	Posted by Universalis#5776 on Aug 1, 2021, 2:13:14 AM Quote this Post
" blindedbylight wrote: Putting aside the op's propensity for selecting a data set that is designed to support their point Excuse me, wtf? I didn't select this data set. I stumbled upon it on reddit and was surprised because it went against my expectations. That's the opposite of selecting data to fit a 'point' in every conceivable way.	Posted by innervation#4093 on Aug 1, 2021, 4:15:03 AM Quote this Post
" Teplokot wrote: " innervation wrote: Given that Harvest was the biggest power creep the game had ever seen Mate, have you even played Harvest league? This. THIS is why people quit Harvest in the first seven days. Now show me all those plans made by professional demolition engineers for Expedition logbook farming to maximize rewards. Wait there is none. Cos Expedition is just an Abyss with extra steps. People are leaving because its boring as fuck This is EXACTLY the reason I dropped out from harvest after a few days. An optimal setup of the garden was just too much a hassle for me in an ARPG. And I dont want to read all the remnant inscriptions either which you have to because they can be gamebreaking alone or in combination with others. And when you are done reading and setting up the explosions all your temporary dom blow/HOP minions are gone. And they are harder to respawn now because of the nerfs to damage. I am also not having fun reading map mods or the terms of service of Windows 10.	Posted by FiftyShadesOfCovfefe#1615 on Aug 1, 2021, 11:00:23 AM Quote this Post
problems with harvest league were - no additional league monsters in maps - very tedious process of setting up a garden im still thinking that the league itself was mediocre at best, thats why it has bad retention during the first week its not correct to compare it with the current carastrophe, 3.14+3.15 = two patches that destroyed the game completely, 60% of total playerbase have abandoned the game, and that is saying something bring back 3.13 as a private league option dead game bring back 3.13 Last edited by Tainted_Fate#2799 on Aug 1, 2021, 11:23:28 AM	Posted by Tainted_Fate#2799 on Aug 1, 2021, 11:18:38 AM Quote this Post
" Teplokot wrote: " innervation wrote: Given that Harvest was the biggest power creep the game had ever seen Mate, have you even played Harvest league? This. THIS is why people quit Harvest in the first seven days. Now show me all those plans made by professional demolition engineers for Expedition logbook farming to maximize rewards. Wait there is none. Cos Expedition is just an Abyss with extra steps. People are leaving because its boring as fuck On one hand, that image is not representative of what Harvest was like. Literally nobody used this setup, not even the most dedicated players. On the other hand, this image absolutely did contribute to ensuring that Harvest would never see success. Nobody was willing to take a chance that it was anything remotely like what is presented here.	Posted by VolcanoElixir#1787 on Aug 1, 2021, 11:34:07 AM Quote this Post