Resolute Technique & Non-Crit Builds

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Baharoth15 wrote:

Sure crit has the higher damage ceiling but utilizing that without massive losses on other fronts is only possible at the top end which is the realm of the 0,01 so if HC is irrelevant due to low player numbers, then i wonder how irrelevant this is?

Except that 2 accuracy rolls on gear and precision aura is far from 0.01 region or "massive losses".
Got to factor in there are a lot of copy paste people who dont make own builds and copy a basic starter template and dont evolve beyond that.

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zzang wrote:

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Baharoth15 wrote:

Sure crit has the higher damage ceiling but utilizing that without massive losses on other fronts is only possible at the top end which is the realm of the 0,01 so if HC is irrelevant due to low player numbers, then i wonder how irrelevant this is?

Except that 2 accuracy rolls on gear and precision aura is far from 0.01 region or "massive losses".
Got to factor in there are a lot of copy paste people who dont make own builds and copy a basic starter template and dont evolve beyond that.

Certainly not, but it doesn't stop there. You need to allocate lot's of crit nodes on the tree which you'll be missing on other ends. Sid always argues that using crit for scaling is better than increased damage, and it sure is, he just forgets that there are other scaling methods like warcries, dot in case of EQ and Impale in case of other phys skills which you'll have to cut for crit or you end up cutting defenses. Crit on melee also usually means you need Abyssus which is it's own little problem.

Then you'll want Bottled Faith to push your crit even further as it's easily the best damage flask for crit builds. And then you get to the biggest point which is the weapon. You can get bonkers damage using Uul Nethols or Erqui on an RT build as those weapons will carry you on base damage alone. Uul Nethols has around 600 average base damage for 10c. If you want to use a crit build that actually has a significantly higher damage output you'll need some rare staff/axe that has similar base damage AND crit suffixes which is really hard to get for normal players now that harvest is trashed. You'll also want an influenced armor with tier 1 attack crit and possibly other mods like power charge generation. All of that considered you'll end up in gear regions way beyond what ordinary players can pull off before crit's damage potential really starts showing to such an extend that it's worth all the sacrifices you'll be making.

I mean i really don't understand why we even have to argue about this, 80+ % of people on high level slam builds run RT, that's a simple fact. If it was all so easy to make crit builds that are better than RT builds then this wouldn't happen because people usually follow builds that are fairly optimized. Unless you want to argue now that most meta builds on POE Ninja are jackshit and everyone is just following jackshit builds?

no. just no.

3 pages ago i made a clear f.. guide how to get 60% more damage for a price of:

assassins mark
garbage +1% crit chest (10c right now)
7 passives (you dont even need pathing nodes as you are there anyway)

on a 5% crit base, no flasks, no nothing

crit used to be expensive. USED TO BE. over the years GGG made it TRIVIAL to get it

the stuff you list as 'required' is NOT required. bottled faith is idiotic but hardly necessary. i do not 'tick' my flasks in POB anyway.

Bleed EQ with an absurdly unpleasant weapon to play - you sure dont need crit. warcries scale in the same %increased as everything else. the true warcries scaling comes from seismic cry, fist of war and some medium cluster jewel notables (like crit/crit multi vs taunted or 'power' stuff)


these 'slam' builds are bleed builds. like pretty much every single one.


and for the Nth time. using more efficient way of scaling damage allows you to get the same damage FOR LESS. the excess can be poured into defences. it is as simple as that. RT has one less multiplier available so by the definition it is worse, has lower ceiling and LESS power per point. all that to avoid getting 3200 base accuracy rating. that in 2021 is pretty easy to get.

Go and post a POB for a slam build with this kind of investment i'd love to see that. You'll either end up with less damage than an RT build or your defenses will be non existant or both.

And no, the main dps effect of warcry nodes doesn't come from increased exerted damage, it comes from warcry speed and warcry cooldown recovery. Deep breaths is one of the best damage nodes for warcry builds and it has no increased damage whatsoever.

Any build able to stack just a bit of accuracy "for free" is times better compared to an RT contender. With exception of slams and partially bleed builds for reasons.
And getting high chance to hit nowadays is blatantly easy.

Crit builds are a completely different beast and shouldn't be taken into consideration while talking bout RT.

RT is outdated and is an effective self-nerf, besides some niche build archetypes. Which wasn't its initial design.
It's really outdated as fuck.

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Baharoth15 wrote:

I mean i really don't understand why we even have to argue about this, 80+ % of people on high level slam builds run RT, that's a simple fact. If it was all so easy to make crit builds that are better than RT builds then this wouldn't happen because people usually follow builds that are fairly optimized. Unless you want to argue now that most meta builds on POE Ninja are jackshit and everyone is just following jackshit builds?

Im not sure what statistics you base your argument of.
Im looking at poe.ninja Ultimatum SC right now.

The first slam i did encounter unless my eyes have missed a gem in the 5+ links list is Earthquake at 0.8% played. You call 0.8% usage "most meta"?
Inside those 0.8% a big portion is using Resolute Technique thats fine. But they are playing starter builds to begin with and leveled them into the 90's which is respectable given sluggish gameplay with slams.

I mean we are not talking about 100% crit cap to easily beat Resolute Technique. A Diamond Flask with 80% Crit Chance suffix is a good start. The rest really depends on gearing/skill tree pathing.

But like minor crit multi of 250% (base 150 + 100% extra) with a Diamond Flask and given the right weapon choice and like 2 accuracy rolls on gear should already easily outplay most RT builds without significant investment or any losses worth mentioning. Im not excluding niche cases where it might break even that is a possbility.

After all its good to have a upgrade path from RT to Crit which is by design. Once proper investment is made crit is outshining RT by several magnitudes in damage. Its up to anyone who does want to take the upgrade path and invest into crit though.

I was talking about SC Trade POE Ninja level 97+ for Slams. Obviously i am considering slams here because its one of the Archetypes that can make use of RT. I wouldn't play strike builds without crit and i am not arguing for that. Much less for spells obviously. But within Slams RT has a really high usage. If you say that's all just leveling gear/builds all the way up to 100 then i don't know what to say.

Yes, with like 80% crit and 400+ crit multi you'll probably outscale an RT build in terms of dps. But 7 crit nodes, +1 crit armor and assassins mark won't get you anywhere close to that. Using Sids suggested setup you'll end up with something like 20% crit and 200-250 crit multi, especially without flasks. That's not going to cut it, not even close.

I agree with your last part, with sufficient investment crit beats RT and it should be, otherwise there would no point to it. But reaching those levels isn't exactly trivial and it's also not needed for most content which is why so many people decide against it.

I can beat your glorious RT by miles in a 30 chaos budget.

Abyssus, Diamond flask,trash 1% crit chest, Precision, cheap ass gloves/ ring with accuracy roll and you're set. Whoever think RT save a lot of effort not going crit is living in their 2015.

Then go ahead and do that. And after you made the build, go and do some endgame boss fights or 100% deli maps with it and tell me how it went.

A MUCH BETTER AND ROUNDED OPTION WOULD BE A SECOND KEYSTONE AFTER RESOLUTE TECHNIQUE (SO ITS MANDATORY) WITH:
-YOUR PHYSICAL DAMAGE HITS ARE LUCKY
-YOUR ELEMENTAL DAMAGE HITS ARE UNLUCKY
-YOUR PHYSICAL DAMAGE CANNOT BE CONVERTED

BECUZ ITS STILL A GREAT OPTION FOR BLEEDING BUILDS OR MULTI CONVERTING BUILDS
SO IT WOULD ADD A GOOD OPTION FOR PURE PHYS BUILDS

ANOTHER OPTION IS:
INSTEAD OF "CANNOT DEAL CRITICAL STRIKE" TO HAVE "YOUR CRITICAL STRIKE CHANCE IS ALWAYS UNLUCKY"