Why is Monsters Reflect Damage map mod still a thing?

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gandhar0 wrote:

I deal with reflect (unidentified & identified maps) with reeolling the watchstone(s) till i get the reflect immunity affix.

u rich :D

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DoEFotGS wrote:

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Xavathos wrote:

"Didn't notice" is a poor excuse, because that's never what happens.

It happened a lot of times on different person streams. For example, Zizaran was died a few times because of that.

Yeah mistakes happen, I know. I've done it too.
The point I was making there is that when you choose to glance over mods, not actually reading, you willingly throw caution to the wind. If you get punished for that, you deserve it.

It's basically the same argument I often hear when referring to getting scammed. There are systems in place to protect you from scams, but many players, for whatever reason, choose to ignore it entirely, hover over the items without looking and then get punished for it. Take some responsibility for your actions.

Don't get me wrong, I think it's a stupid mechanic and I want it gone too, but not if it means using the argument that it's impossible to deal with, because that's just bull. Shag's argument is solid though. For builds that ignore it, it's just a bonus in drops and xp on a map.

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Xavathos wrote:

The point I was making there is that when you choose to glance over mods, not actually reading, you willingly throw caution to the wind. If you get punished for that, you deserve it.

No. You clearly told that: 'because that's never what happens'. So, yeah:

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Xavathos wrote:

mistakes happen

And also about of that:

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Xavathos wrote:

It's basically the same argument I often hear when referring to getting scammed. There are systems in place to protect you from scams, but many players, for whatever reason, choose to ignore it entirely, hover over the items without looking and then get punished for it. Take some responsibility for your actions.

Same system allow people to scam each other. So, that the point of protect it?

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Xavathos wrote:

Don't get me wrong, I think it's a stupid mechanic and I want it gone too, but not if it means using the argument that it's impossible to deal with, because that's just bull.

This mod does nothing besides 'Oh, crap' moment. This mod have a place in past, when you can really manage your damage (10k DPS was a GOOD on Dominus) and health loss/restore. When you just can oneshot yourself in one touch - this shit must to go.

Not only was player DPS much lower. Reflect map mod was capped to no more than 20% of your damage last time I believe. Back then, Vaal Pact also was the solution.

I think if you have decided to go SSF, it also means you are prepared to face the consequences of corrupting your maps. Worst case, if you are spellcaster, you can just link them to Trap or High-Impact Mines just for that map.

The sextant mode for reflect immunity is great too. I always forgot about that.

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DoEFotGS wrote:

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adghar wrote:

Because there are multiple strategies to deal with this mod.

No.

GGG just like to watch when somebody die on HC because did not noticed reflect in wall of text on mods description.

And whomever that somebody is, it's 100% his fault for not paying attention.

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adghar wrote:

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Why is Monsters Reflect Damage map mod still a thing?

Because there are multiple strategies to deal with this mod.

+ Yugul Pantheon brings you to 105% reduced reflected damage taken, which for Elemental Damage would only cause you to take reflected damage when Shocked (or possibly some obscure increased damage taken sources like Essences, I'm not sure). If you're playing a Physical build and/or would like to be warded against Shock (+Vulnerability if physical), you can take further reduced reflected damage taken from the Passive tree and/or Influenced items.

Reflect is the only map mod where you have to go above and beyond what you need to do for other mods. At least maps with no regen or leech can be fixed by changing out a flask or two. For reflect, you have to put away a ring that may be critical to your build and grab a pantheon that is otherwise pointless, just to circumvent it. It's either that or run a build that's intrinsically capable of ignoring it right out the door, such as a skeleton summoner, trapper, miner, or totems. That's some nice build diversity right there.

To those who are saying: missing the mod and dying is not the fault of the player, it's the fault of the game design...

It is on YOU to know what mod will instantly kill you or seriously hurt your chances to survive, whether that is no leech, no regen, no poison, etc. When you roll maps, you can easily glance at the map even with 12 mods and see that one line that you HAVE to look out for based on your build. It is a finite and extremely clear list of mods...

If you don't read it, that is entirely your fault. The game offers plenty of ways to get around reflect (reroll, reflect immunity, skip map, sextant). Just save the reflect map in your stash until you can run it later, even as a SSF. If you are hardcore and you die to reflect because you didn't read your mods carefully you are just a dumbass and deserve that death. OR you have been playing for too long and should take a nap :)

Stop blaming poor player skills and basic literacy on Game Mechanics. Slow down just long enough to read what you are running. Its the difference between taking 1 second to load a map, and 1.3 seconds to load a map.

All that being said, reflect is definitely a dumb mechanic and there should be NO instagib mechanic apart from boss telegraphed attacks and super juiced map monsters. The fact that a single mod on a t1 blue map can kill a lvl 100 all-mirrored gear player just makes zero sense to begin with, even after you factor in all the ways around it.

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Shagsbeard wrote:

This thread has literally explained why it's not black/white and you try to claim it is. It's not. There are ways to run it by changing your equipment or passives. That's not "ignoring" it.

When some with "unaffected by reflect" gets the mod, it's bonus to the map's quantity and mob density. It's not "ignored".

A good half of the builds players run will include direct physical damage and the opposing half include direct elemental damage. If a mod is going to shut down or seriously hamper a build, it should represent only a small % of players. The mod is BADLY DESIGNED. There is no way around that. It should either be entirely removed, or changed to be mechanical like with rare mob reflect. Why they opted to keep reflect like it is now is beyond me cuz that change was stupid long overdue. I'm fine with reflect being a mechanic. I'm NOT fine with map mods being literally unplayable for most associated builds like with reflect in its current state. It is way too easy to gloss over it especially in the wall rare and corrupted tend to become despite taking the time to read. Eventually, you miss it, transpose something, and the game punishes you for playing.

The mod isnt badly designed. Every build has weaknesses and ups and downs, thats the point of map modifiers.

For example, Monsters are Accurate and Dodge is unlucky sucks for Evasion builds. If you know how EV works then you know you need an exponential amount of it in higher tier maps in order to keep up your Evasion chance. Monsters in T16 have almost 600 accuracy rating meaning you need like 12k evasion ALONE before the mods to stay Evasive around 40%, so when this is reduced youd need an exponential, unreachable amount to keep that same 40%. In which its better to reroll the modifier.

Most builds that cant deal with reflect are high damaging meta builds that have the highest clear speeds, reflect is the counter to those builds by making it more difficult to gear for them or having to clear them more slowly. Damage is out of control now so one shotting yourself isnt surprising in any reflect mod, you can thank power creep for that.

Its good for build diversity because while some people may choose the fast meta builds, others will choose the slower builds to avoid it. I dont like to deal with reflect, i also dont like trying to find which monster is the reflect mob in a cluster fuck like during ultimatum trials so i chose slower clear for the advantage of not caring about map mods or mob modifiers that could get me killed.

This is why i play trapper in most new leagues, i dont have to worry about modifiers and while my clear is definitely slower than any Meta build, i dont have to reroll my maps.

The fact is, 1 chaos to reroll when youre clearing twice as fast as other people is a small price to pay for playing the build isnt it ? It would be for me if i had any interest ever in playing Meta.

Map reflect exists to burn your currency and serves no other purposes.